IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sun, 13 September 2020 00:37 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066093A03F1 for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 17:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NUiwonbGF-61 for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 17:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 361943A03EE for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 17:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F1E3899C; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:15:52 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id LBUeu55byAhM; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:15:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:103c:9eff:fecb:2eac]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0EE38998; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:15:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B79FA9A; Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:37:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <95e1bae1-88b1-9df8-8bf5-c4f51b7bc081@gmail.com>
References: <8657.1599751932@localhost> <84c8d593-c7b6-4327-338f-9b2b0e7a36e0@levkowetz.com> <0C6D4DE2-F9F3-4C7C-8427-264F34C8C2B7@tzi.org> <26d795d2-3761-2950-4346-62f849d86eed@nostrum.com> <7792.1599768579@localhost> <C73D6AB9-694E-458E-AEEE-45DBDEF623C5@vigilsec.com> <3B281EED-CDCE-4025-8C78-7BA689490936@tzi.org> <5B0C691F-EA59-44E9-959F-52445CA58314@gmail.com> <41EEFFCD-DEB9-4950-95B1-F43ACC73CAF1@vigilsec.com> <2F82E43A-39CF-4C99-BE9E-CD84D2BE21B3@gmail.com> <C44C644D-C24A-4839-BB61-F758AA2D7BF1@vigilsec.com> <BCB7C223-EFDE-46D3-A4E2-82068C688547@tzi.org> <95e1bae1-88b1-9df8-8bf5-c4f51b7bc081@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:37:01 -0400
Message-ID: <26761.1599957421@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/Y6BFHp7RSuAodFxlCao6ut1g2DA>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2020 00:37:09 -0000

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
    >> On 2020-09-11, at 20:59, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I disagree.  If the I-D has expired, it should not be shown there.
    >>
    >> A little Saturday metacomment:
    >>
    >> This is a nice example of “process confabulation”, designing software for what SHOULD happen, not for what actually DOES (and NEEDS TO) happen.

    > And what SHOULD happen is defined in RFC2026, our most basic process document.
    > I don't think we can blame the official tools for following the official rules.
    > There are 14 RFCs that update RFC2026 already, so one more can't do much harm.

I think we should really amend section 2.2.
We write:

   An Internet-Draft that is published as an RFC, or that has remained
   unchanged in the Internet-Drafts directory for more than six months
   without being recommended by the IESG for publication as an RFC, is
   simply removed from the Internet-Drafts directory.

I think that we should change "removed" to "expired"

1) We are forced to keep them for IPR reasons.
2) rfcdiff can't work if the old copy isn't somewhere.

Is www.ietf.org/id the actual "internet-drafts" directory?
I note that RFC2026 does not explicitely say "FTP" :-)

BTW: Was there a point where people anon-FTP'ed into ftp.ietf.org, and just
uploaded drafts on their own?  When I started in 1995, one would email them
to the secretariat-type entity, and wait a day or so.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email