Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Wed, 23 September 2020 16:52 UTC
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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 18:52:41 +0200
Cc: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
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To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draft on the w.g. status pages [was Re: disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org])
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> Drafts are drafts unless they’re not. We have learned for a few decades that there are multiple perspectives on that, none of which can be ignored. A patent lawyer has a different perspective than a software archeologist (a.k.a. implementer) than a standards developer. > Drafts expire unless they don’t. Again, there are different perspectives. Saying your’s is the only one we should care about because that is how we SHOULD work, while we DO work differently, is the classic case of process confabulation. Having labels > Treating them as artifacts in need of a stable reference means they’re not drafts anymore. They’re just versions. They are versions of drafts! > So assign RFC numbers when they’re initially submitted and allow rev numbers or don’t. Nonsense. The label “RFC” is meaningful and should only be used for documents that are no longer “drafts”. > But if they’re not drafts, again we should just publish them to arXiv and skip all the irrelevant IETF mechanism. Nonsense. The IETF process is useful in producing labels such as “RFC”, “Standards Track”, “obsoletes”, “Updates”, etc. What’s the point of drawing these strawmen? Grüße, Carsten
- [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.org Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. status … Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Bob Hinden
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Russ Housley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expired draft on the w.g. sta… Brian E Carpenter
- [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired draf… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Robert Sparks
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Nico Williams
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- Re: [Tools-discuss] disappearing IDs on www.ietf.… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … S Moonesamy
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Julian Reschke
- [Tools-discuss] it is worse than I thought: (was … Michael Richardson
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … worley
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joe Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Joseph Touch
- Re: [Tools-discuss] Expiry Doctrine (Re: Expired … Paul Hoffman