Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment
"Heatley, Nick" <nick.heatley@ee.co.uk> Tue, 05 August 2014 15:57 UTC
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From: "Heatley, Nick" <nick.heatley@ee.co.uk>
To: Czerwonka Michał 1 - Hurt <Michal.Czerwonka1@orange.com>, Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment
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Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2014 15:57:00 +0000
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Cc: IPv6 Ops WG <v6ops@ietf.org>, Tore Anderson <tore@fud.no>, Kossut Tomasz - Hurt <Tomasz.Kossut@orange.com>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment
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Hi all, EE similar, but not identical. We are hot on 464xlat (RFC6877), it is perfect for networks that already extensively use NAT44, and gets customers off IPv4 (both public and private, as neither is sufficient). Regards, Nick From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Czerwonka Michal 1 - Hurt Sent: 05 August 2014 10:22 To: Ca By; Brian E Carpenter Cc: IPv6 Ops WG; Tore Anderson; Kossut Tomasz - Hurt Subject: Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Hi all, I confirm this is correct. Even we went further and we do not use DNS64. Our architecture is CLAT+NAT64+DNS. So with dns and without dns ipv4 traffic always goes via CLAT. It’s perfect solution ☺ UK EE will do the same. See more at: http://www.data.proidea.org.pl/plnog/12edycja/day2/track4/01_ipv6_implementation.pdf Even triple translation is not bad too: CLAT+NAT64stateless+NAT44statefull. BR, Mcz Orange Poland [cid:image003.png@01CFB0A0.62223A60] February 1% of active PDP IPv6 ctx, now over 8% From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ca By Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 5:10 AM To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: IPv6 Ops WG; Tore Anderson Subject: Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment On Aug 4, 2014 1:26 PM, "Brian E Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com<mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > My point in bringing this up is not that it is “useful in an IPv6 network” that might also be running IPv4 in parallel. It is that it seems useful to me in moving toward and IPv6-*only* network. Ross suggests that he sees conceptual movement - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win. We may, Ross suggests, be approaching stage 4. It may be useful for us as a working group to lay out the game plan for that movement - not just to document IPv6 operational practice, but to help the IETF determine whether the dual stack consensus has changed or is changing, and help operators figure out how to turn IPv4 off without individually shooting their toes off. This would be part of that game plan. > > Well, I think the operators that moved early into genuine dual > stack operation have no reason to regret it. I'm a happy customer > of one such. On the other hand it seems that other operators are of > the opinion (probably unprovable) that providing the illusion of dual > stack service to the customer over an IPv6 infrastructure is cheaper. > In any case the customer ends up with NATted IPv4 service in most > cases, so at user level it doesn't really matter. > > I think we should probably not express a preference either way. It > seems like a decision for each operator to make individually. What we > probably should do is stop inventing more solutions. > Why? I was told the same thing about 464xlat, we did not need another solution. If the ietf held the line against double translation i believe there would be exactly 1 ipv6 cellular provider in the world (verizon). With 464xlat, afaik, there are globally 3 cellular providers that offer default ipv6 (464xlat at tmobile us and Orange PL and DS at VZ). It does not matter if the cat is white or black, it matters that it catches mice. CB > (In parenthesis, I've never seen sunsetting IPv4 as a real problem. > One day somebody will notice that there are no more IPv4 packets. But > that is many years in the future.) > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org<mailto:v6ops@ietf.org> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose. We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you. EE Limited Registered in England and Wales Company Registered Number: 02382161 Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW
- [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Czerwonka Michał 1 - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment William F. Maton Sotomayor
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Czerwonka Michał 1 - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roaming… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roaming… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] IPv4v6 roaming Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Vízdal Aleš
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Vízdal Aleš
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… holger.metschulat
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Lee Howard
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Dave Michaud
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Gert Doering
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ca By
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… GangChen
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Jouni
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Dave Michaud
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Tore Anderson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ross Chandler
- Re: [v6ops] I-D Action: draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-roa… Geir Egeland
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Ray Hunter
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Mark Andrews
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment George Michaelson
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Heatley, Nick
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Kossut Tomasz - Hurt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Owen DeLong
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment James Woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment James Woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Operational Consensus on deployment Mark Andrews