IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [hrpc] Censorship

Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> Fri, 11 March 2022 16:38 UTC

Return-Path: <woody@pch.net>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B668B3A0848 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:38:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pch.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hySAsakqP-3a for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:38:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.pch.net (keriomail.pch.net [206.220.231.84]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02DC83A07FB for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:38:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=pch.net; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to: references; bh=QNr4U5nVSZ6iEYY8x5KGqYJRSptNhVXSGL0rHt1L3Q4=; b=qllv3CKa7wiLn7BKb+lDAUhXi84CUWuOUNy2Me0krLjHIE1TThGPD3TdhbBQZA63N/hp55cN3FBcG wRhWTWhBPgMRjh4SICfSHCdSGZEf+wMIGec56bQX/3yJIetxUTC6FCLwZNoKJK9tk55kOxggpk4Own 24ELYnyhyjTVlvOXQEyfhvbxbKE0uBCzH4LqaEUAhSHSQfXzHU2iruJYuDYWrhhHKYgnvhURtDjcjG q3SuH+TLhH1kuJ7eHDye8wMlltDDu9HmmXfe9JxrosT79kUi06huuN6B26EQQHuKCX8FyQhpg7SN+T vnjAfMREO7D7zmJr/fWOMo0G/PkUSrw==
X-Footer: cGNoLm5ldA==
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2620:171:202:6be4:391d:22b9:94ac:3eb2]) by mail.pch.net (Kerio Connect 9.2.7 patch 3) with ESMTPS (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Fri, 11 Mar 2022 08:38:20 -0800
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_125F5CD9-4E1A-4B19-81D3-A0DA5A0FF211"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha256"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\))
From: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>
In-Reply-To: <9f5fefa4-297f-5930-4ed1-354279b5d2dc@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 17:38:17 +0100
Cc: "hrpc@irtf.org" <hrpc@irtf.org>
Message-Id: <FAFC98CE-1895-47F3-93E6-6A6ED8F7DB56@pch.net>
References: <669686052.184329.1646989079672@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <9f5fefa4-297f-5930-4ed1-354279b5d2dc@cs.tcd.ie>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/7TVj9LIOZOlYdjqIvuAp9esHE58>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] Censorship
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: hrpc discussion list <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 16:38:31 -0000


> On Mar 11, 2022, at 5:32 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote:
> I have to say I'm not warming to the concept myself, for
> a few reasons - the overall history of blocklists isn't so
> clean and I'm unconvinced attempting to add transparency
> is either doable or would be effective. Secondly, IIUC a
> lot of the bad actors (that I'd envisage) already have a
> modus-operandi where they originate traffic from other
> people's networks, so a blocklist even if accurate might
> be moot. And lastly, convincingly demonstrating correct
> (or at least believable) attribution seems like it might
> just not be possible in any open manner.

So, just block everybody and let god sort them out?

Because that’s the status quo, and the problem we’re trying to fix.

                                -Bill

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email