Re: [hrpc] Censorship
Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch> Fri, 11 March 2022 12:00 UTC
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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2022 13:00:00 +0100
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To: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>, Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
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From: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
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Subject: Re: [hrpc] Censorship
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Bill, The reason I believe that this RG is an appropriate venue to discuss your communique is that each of the assertions you and others make seem to me closer to research questions. Full disclosure: my own view is that *if* the Internet community could effectively contribute to forcing Russia out of Ukraine, we have a moral obligation to do so. However, I don't believe we can effectively contribute to that goal at the governance level, and maybe not at any other level. Your assertions are: > * > > ● Disconnecting the population of a country from the Internet is a > disproportionate and inappropriate sanction, since it hampers > their access to the very information that might lead them to > withdraw support for acts of war and leaves them with access to > only the information their own government chooses to furnish. > This is indeed the theory. Nothing like a live experiment to test it. Anyone collecting data? > * > > ● The effectiveness of sanctions should be evaluated relative to > predefined goals. Ineffective sanctions waste effort and willpower > and convey neither unity nor conviction. > There's a lot of devil hidden in the detail of "predefined goals", and there is a body of research around this. Also, it doesn't follow that ineffective sanctions fail to convey unity or conviction. If the goal is to get Russia out of Ukraine and they don't leave, does that mean that the west has failed to convey conviction? > * > > ● Sanctions should be focused and precise. They should minimize > the chance of unintended consequences or collateral damage. > Disproportionate or over-broad sanctions risk fundamentally > alienating populations. > Again, there is a body of research around this. > * > > ● Military and propaganda agencies and their information > infrastructure are potential targets of sanctions. > Is this meant to be an exclusive list? > * > > ● The Internet, due to its transnational nature and > consensus-driven multistakeholder system of governance, currently > does not easily lend itself to the imposition of sanctions in > national conflicts. > I have my own view as to why this is true. But it may be worth elaborating in detail. > * > > ● It is inappropriate and counterproductive for governments to > attempt to compel Internet governance mechanisms to impose > sanctions outside of the community’s multistakeholder > decision-making process. > Yeah, this requires a discussion of supremecy and subservience. Who is supreme and why and where are the guns to back that up? > * > > ● There are nonetheless appropriate, effective, and specific > sanctions the Internet governance community may wish to consider > in its deliberative processes. > Elaborate.
- [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship avri
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Jouris
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Jouris
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: Censo… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: C… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Melinda Shore
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Desiree Miloshevic
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Desiree Miloshevic
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] RIPE Cooperation Working Group Remote … Alexandre Petrescu