Re: [hrpc] Censorship
Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> Sat, 12 March 2022 09:18 UTC
Return-Path: <woody@pch.net>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDE073A1701 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:18:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.11
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.11 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pch.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GFYlNY7DR6a9 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:18:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.pch.net (keriomail.pch.net [206.220.231.84]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 182EE3A1700 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:18:31 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=pch.net; s=mail; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to: references; bh=chkvUS4+d7pk7PlrrmRPp6kVKy+FGbNTLtnYT1jK0RM=; b=5Sl8CmwwjAbjB1NhKh8XJeBumAyV1sF68wMMdfTEGIGZRLMm3JebGKOW5frZ3EsdmibS75oG7s5Oh 2GcKW7c7z3yDatqnHdUDESFZI/imAmqZeYJZABQEIuOfo9cUDvAdZis2udd3Hdm4FEMeIm9XUNh7j0 gNF8K02GnOPnoGMs+LkHiLgN6Rw4WGGVo4IE7WNcIKBxyJtyEYOIfPW+FIZHmqELIFY0u387+e4Anm 09KYoqGfc5QJP6jzQAEbwcfnwctssSKhFGauxrRQGwM/IOo6anL7bXCftZbz7dcT2S89FKkIopFp4z r7iCHskHX/tHd9Xo1VDUQH/14blAepA==
X-Footer: cGNoLm5ldA==
Received: from smtpclient.apple ([69.166.14.6]) by mail.pch.net (Kerio Connect 9.2.7 patch 3) with ESMTPS (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256 bits)); Sat, 12 Mar 2022 01:18:30 -0800
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D8EB2CE9-834F-439D-9572-71B23EDCD5DB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha256"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.60.0.1.1\))
From: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>
In-Reply-To: <25132.19040.388723.228805@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 10:18:22 +0100
Cc: hrpc@irtf.org
Message-Id: <B41A8BB3-BBF3-4D53-A14D-E1CE4BC782DF@pch.net>
References: <1779273019.188450.1647022617139@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <AF3A93BB-04A7-4E5F-B88A-CD441369874E@nohats.ca> <1bf024c5-9044-f806-9ce9-7a3377045f48@lear.ch> <25132.19040.388723.228805@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
To: bzs@theworld.com
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.60.0.1.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/qblIG9wgNjVVwZMU9Hc5L6fQ3n0>
Subject: Re: [hrpc] Censorship
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: hrpc discussion list <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 09:18:37 -0000
> On Mar 12, 2022, at 8:23 AM, bzs@theworld.com wrote: > In the mind's eye it seems like someone or some identifiable > organization must be in charge. The very idea of "cutting off” > a nation may only exist in that mind's eye. We may be > debating the merits of a fiction. Exactly. There is no authority. Merely a lot of mechanisms that do different things. This is a proposed mechanism, which may achieve an end for some people. Anyone who doesn’t need it or doesn’t like it is free to ignore it. Criticizing it serves no purpose. Working constructively to ensure that it functions well is productive. People who believe civilians should be targets of sanctions are welcome to not use it; if few enough people wind up agreeing that civilians should not be targeted, maybe nobody will be left to maintain the mechanism, and it will fade away and become a footnote in history. None of this is any different than how the rest of the Internet works. > Just about all the sanctions are very "leaky". Russian oil > etc. will be sold, the transactions will be paid for without access to > SWIFT, etc. > > Making the best the enemy of the good I would argue is a > terrible and naive debating point. We can't do #2 perfectly so let's > not try at all. > > No reasonable person expects perfect compliance for any sanction. Exactly. > They might reasonably expect a unified statement be made. Not if they’re familiar with the IG debate club. But I take your point. :-) -Bill
- [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship avri
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Jouris
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Jouris
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Paul Wouters
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: Censo… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: C… Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Jens Finkhaeuser
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship bzs
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Bill Woodcock
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Mallory Knodel
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Melinda Shore
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Stephen Farrell
- Re: [hrpc] ***SPAM**** Re: Censorship Eliot Lear
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Niels ten Oever
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship farzaneh badii
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Desiree Miloshevic
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Desiree Miloshevic
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [hrpc] Censorship S Moonesamy
- Re: [hrpc] RIPE Cooperation Working Group Remote … Alexandre Petrescu