[hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: Censorship)

Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com> Mon, 14 March 2022 15:19 UTC

Return-Path: <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
X-Original-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752063A15D1 for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=MyYF3Qqj; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=HcZYdlCC
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7sefWjVqWqyU for <hrpc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx5.yitter.info (mx5.yitter.info [159.203.31.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F54B3A0814 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 08:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx5.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE2CBD5C5 for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:18:48 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1647271128; bh=yxBreYQHvCrtyfFh8tnVUR+K1YqLMfavOgum/rClypM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=MyYF3Qqjf61lWO1NNGoleM6eMzeFp2JpBxW2AAoAQjKEyVYlKrZtdYJ/xRGFFEMjM HXwOwRnau72k9bw7jXyOq+wcEVNdhdbYigfNW7KcTtqznBTNZPCh+q4jnjaFNQbKQj f+4CecI2nZt54CaM1LqdnWlxUNY+jc4Fqu6FpO4k=
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca
Received: from mx5.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx5.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jRYDGcaOLfli for <hrpc@irtf.org>; Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:18:47 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 11:18:45 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1647271127; bh=yxBreYQHvCrtyfFh8tnVUR+K1YqLMfavOgum/rClypM=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=HcZYdlCCh9UFFPvdgYSSP6rXauHRQ4cShI+JjNXB7Zwo630tQD8ptsfk18lRfP0Zh oQQBFwXlJpgQ1KzB6gfpm+sIQGMFTE3T26LqbsVkzMghhN6TUeFZrUWuIrRdiW6Pi6 /1zn6cBG8mEEXq4NhUHN9/qJ5j9tf5u53TLkq76c=
From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
To: hrpc@irtf.org
Message-ID: <20220314151845.dwysddqcmlvwzl6d@crankycanuck.ca>
Mail-Followup-To: hrpc@irtf.org
References: <1779273019.188450.1647022617139@appsuite-gw2.open-xchange.com> <AF3A93BB-04A7-4E5F-B88A-CD441369874E@nohats.ca> <1bf024c5-9044-f806-9ce9-7a3377045f48@lear.ch> <25132.19040.388723.228805@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <B41A8BB3-BBF3-4D53-A14D-E1CE4BC782DF@pch.net> <20220313214033.rysyxmydzda2v3kw@crankycanuck.ca> <0dc641aa-152f-2b17-fb09-3a578200c91f@nielstenoever.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <0dc641aa-152f-2b17-fb09-3a578200c91f@nielstenoever.net>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/hrpc/gwZz3QRiWDjarj8AnJknSMKEFYU>
Subject: [hrpc] draft-irtf-hrpc-association (was Re: Censorship)
X-BeenThere: hrpc@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: hrpc discussion list <hrpc.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/hrpc/>
List-Post: <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/hrpc>, <mailto:hrpc-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2022 15:19:27 -0000

Hi,

[still employed, still not speaking for them]

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 12:25:18PM +0100, Niels ten Oever wrote:

>This discussion perhaps does not belong here, but this is most probably due to the fact that change control of the RG documents lies with the RG, and we implemented every change proposed by the RG. So maybe indeed too many consensus opinions makes thing wooly. On the other hand that means that a lot of opinions are included.
>

I think I argued previously that attempting to make the documents the collective product of the RG was harmful to the quality of the documents, because they had the effect you note.  Please don't take it as a criticism of the editors, who have I think laboured to get contradictory opionions into some kind of coherence. That task is, however, pretty hard to make end well, and I think the draft suffers in clarity as a result.  I wish I had something to contribute that could help, but I don't.  It was in part my frustration with this path for documents that led me to conclude I couldn't contribute meaningfully here, which is why I mostly went silent.

>You helped us come up with some defitions as the Acknowledgements section describes, but if you want I'll remove you right away:
>

Well, to the extent I contributed anything it was as a participant in the RG, which is already captured, so thanks for the adjustment!

Best regards,

A

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@anvilwalrusden.com