Re: Quic: the elephant in the room

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Fri, 09 April 2021 23:34 UTC

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Subject: Re: Quic: the elephant in the room
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <3b25c77d-e721-e86d-6c34-a90039aab0e2@mtcc.com> <CAMm+Lwhi8xwFgZJL7jod2g4urZt_f+dm0tNi+3y1osqOfch2mQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 16:34:37 -0700
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On 4/9/21 4:26 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
> It is only a 'three packet handshake' if you ignore the off path 
> interactions with the DNS service. The timeout on DNS tens to be 
> rather smaller than that most would be comfortable with for crypto.

I don't see why it can't be long lived, but even normal TTL's would get 
amortized over a lot of connections. Right now with certs it is a 5 
message affair which cannot get better. But that is why one of 
$BROWSERVENDORS doing an experiment would be helpful.

Mike


>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 7:17 PM Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com 
> <mailto:mike@mtcc.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     I wrote a blog post about how something like DANE could be used
>     instead
>     of certificates for the TLS handshake to get it back to the
>     original 3
>     packet handshake. I know that isn't news to a lot of people, but the
>     interesting part is that a Google could perform an experiment to
>     see how
>     well it works in real life just like they did with Quic and Spdy.
>     Since
>     Quic is all about making setup time faster, it seems like a pretty
>     reasonable experiment since it would cut out 2 packets generally
>     speaking since DNS can be cached.
>
>     https://rip-van-webble.blogspot.com/2021/04/quic-elephant-in-room.html
>     <https://rip-van-webble.blogspot.com/2021/04/quic-elephant-in-room.html>
>
>     Mike
>