Re: DNSSEC architecture vs reality

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Tue, 13 April 2021 01:08 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E01D3A19B8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.751
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1xxl1dfN7LCb for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com (mail-pj1-x102d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B7373A19B3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id nm3-20020a17090b19c3b029014e1bbf6c60so3921339pjb.4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=zy+t7Zwcyponz826yVGjTGm6Pi40KWHJ0fm4yk/WIDk=; b=Ev22+Il3almrQtTUF2WZ5GOjZ0HguYSJuvmEb/k3IXZzr+5og9EIwRRai2uJPJsZv4 +1QCIRSD7BIcPVBfpzC44gc7tdpAPAny3boQRW+S2J5BMQKTNeKUO4gwfKYK4FkUk5LZ ILDOJ4UUCsr/qULG2pHO35szw6PSkIjnmcharTbNdNiVG4f5/4SU2uiKjQbzSEpU64VP wPYSd1iVw6WiDqTKzfLGSBWxEqCC9uufBMGZ7S4f2xikmVRWSGlX+2ss5gWhOFDlJM+d zEfgvNV2gM9MUQV5ICUmg50iKr6AYErQv4FpDIsd5frvvV3HK2rrV7xwe8qh7dQb1tFh 4mOg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=zy+t7Zwcyponz826yVGjTGm6Pi40KWHJ0fm4yk/WIDk=; b=IL2Si5ZBtFyg8b6u3rroMJopWd2Pnf5WissqcXi1xjzLNQ6+YXqMfbZymMDgaU16l1 f7CkO2IyzUK1QuzI8uYwJHI5Hj4IAjFAG+r/isggjTZxoRpObZF0TqKVb5/LlFYtVgxe qw1KYVW603zcrthn2p/owwNHdLXbaIH6Oae75I5eg+jKZaqDjCg4yWdtzCAAglNBibA+ QDl60IOn6t6AYiHj84slpLMFQu7ihoI5l+JNt0rgIfPHYYEqsT1G2Me3qhHTxkr19Wp7 TSte+9XaSuH8Og6b2qkLtl39Xek8qkbst6fdS75ajDNcUXyhk9VfvPVJakAz+TVLUK3C 6cyw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530xr114A3zo49zbeQcYwpnDquLyNhw5989Dz2+sbZ3u6z/R+yQC 2c3ZWYletvkthaaugiYVnQEiX/MHSCc2Yw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy4U8Wggp2HVIEf/SYbI1hJgFRCYc5TX+R5Hy8QNs4zBKrbwFlh6hnhXogZbD1bvxIBQfWqwg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:a895:: with SMTP id h21mr2101096pjq.13.1618276102536; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-38-56.volcanocom.com. [107.182.38.56]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 184sm10894603pfx.156.2021.04.12.18.08.21 for <ietf@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: DNSSEC architecture vs reality
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <YHN5ObR0eqea8Mrc@straasha.imrryr.org> <CABrd9SRdw9baHD5-j9nz4Zv5JjfL35TgaTvS787orEyGxZdKzA@mail.gmail.com> <YHOAzeOj1JaGdmsO@straasha.imrryr.org> <5e91c054-5935-df07-e8ba-09cc78f6c950@network-heretics.com> <YHPSP8Kij2K4v7qQ@straasha.imrryr.org> <82c5fcc6-b419-6efb-b682-b5dbb32905e2@network-heretics.com> <585D8590-472B-4CBC-8292-5BE85521DD76@gmail.com> <a6545baf-b15e-3690-d7b5-be33c4078e02@mtcc.com> <20210412221435.GV9612@localhost> <0755b70e-cc8e-3404-73cd-51950b3d7e53@mtcc.com> <20210412222748.GW9612@localhost> <b0a43f25-c4c2-9f3c-1a42-426a6ef6afa0@mtcc.com> <5F7F84363A52E9AB79CBF9B2@PSB> <a6375223-6ff0-6ec6-dee6-1d5907bd8c65@network-heretics.com> <720a0610-78cf-1cb0-6b7f-b32cd23e96dc@mtcc.com> <467c891f-6a07-0999-4e56-771c2c0814ad@network-heretics.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <7a1e1ac5-dcc6-ce2c-684d-5f6616916edb@mtcc.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:08:20 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <467c891f-6a07-0999-4e56-771c2c0814ad@network-heretics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/UOyMOGK6T0x9wE8HLo58rbVdhoA>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2021 01:08:28 -0000

On 4/12/21 6:03 PM, Keith Moore wrote:
> On 4/12/21 8:50 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
>
>> The problem is that it's not this simple. Software needs to change to 
>> implement new RR types which inevitably begs the question "what's in 
>> it for me?" 
>
> Well of course software has to change to implement new RR types, 
> because old software wasn't going to query for those RRs and if it got 
> those RRs back in a response it would have to ignore them.
>
> But DNS itself shouldn't have to change to implement new RR types, 
> more than (perhaps) adding a line to a table that says RR type NN has 
> ASCII name XX and the following types of parameters. And that table 
> should be globally and securely accessible. Encode the table in DNS 
> somehow, put it in the root zone or other zone managed by the root, 
> give it a very long TTL, and sign it with DNSSEC.
>
>
Uh, think the long tail of UI's. Even $megacorps use them. And they 
don't look kindly to monkey patches either.

Mike