Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org> Wed, 23 July 2014 22:23 UTC
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From: John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org>
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Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 18:23:54 -0400
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To: Avri Doria <avri@acm.org>
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Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
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On Jul 23, 2014, at 5:46 PM, Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> wrote: > On 23-Jul-14 17:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> What does that have to do with ICANN or IANA accountability? > > Well this and IETF act with regard to IANA entries in a area where ICANN > might think it get a say. IANA accountability is about whether the IANA operator performs in accordance with the supplied policies... that is it, i.e. does IANA perform registry updates as specified by the policy documents. It's a fairly straightforward question of contractual performance (or at least in the case of the RIRs and IAB which perform their policy development separate from ICANN/IANA) > To whom is IANA accountable in making the reservation? the IETF. IANA is accountable to the IAB/IETF for technical reservations in both the IP and DNS spaces (as per the ICANN/IAB/IETF MOU.) It is accountable to the RIRs for adherence to global policy for general purpose IP space (per ICANN/NRO MOU) and one presumes that it is accountable to ICANN's guidance for following policy for the general purpose DNS space (although it is unclear if that's to the ICANN DNS policy body or to ICANN's Board) > But ICANN is responsible for policy regarding TLDs. It gets to tell > IANA what to do with TLDs. ICANN has the ability to make policy with respect to DNS names, but that is still subject to its existing agreements, including the MOU between ICANN and the IAB/IETF (RFC 2860)... That MOU is quite clear about deference to IETF specifications for technical reservations if ICANN wishes to continue serving as the IANA. > It seems to me that it is what could be called a cross-accountabilty > example. Not at all - IANA accountability is about operating the registry accordingly to the policy authority, whereas you are raising issues about the proper policy authority. The IANA must know the proper policy authority for each registry it administers, but that is set external to the IANA via agreements between the parties. You _never_ want the IANA deciding to insert its own independent judgement regarding dispute situations; the IANA is a set of interrelated technical recording functions, not an oversight or judicial role. > IETF 'quite rightly' says it controls protocol parameters and it can do > what it pleases with them despite any policy implications that may occur > that it may or may not have considered. It tells IANA to make these > changes. IANA arrangements with IETF says do what IETF says. As long > as we stick to a single point of accountability for each function we > have no way out of this problem. I therefore argue that there has to be > accountability mechanisms that cross the 'jurisdictions'. Again, IANA accountability is about the IANA adherence to the supplied policy; is it doing it promptly and accurately. You are asking a more general issue about IETF and ICANN accountability for policy development to their respective communities, and does not appear to be in scope for the transition proposal. Specifically - "In discussions to date, a number of topics have arisen that are outside the scope of this transition. To avoid any misunderstanding, there are a range issues that, while important, are not appropriately part of a transition proposal requested by NTIA, including: • Policy development related to the IANA functions. As NTIA currently plays no unique role in the development of policies for the coordination of the Internet’s domain name system, the proposal is not about how relevant policies are created, nor the relevant structures in which they are created. The roles of all Internet registry policy bodies (such as the RIRs, IAB, IETF, ASO, NRO, ccNSO, ccTLD Registry Operators, and the GNSO) will stay unchanged. These bodies continue to represent their respective communities and hold policy authority for the protocol parameter, number, and name spaces, including responsibility to ensure the faithful registry implementation by ICANN according to those policies." <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/iana-transition-scoping-08apr14-en.pdf> i.e. it is perfectly reasonable to specify how "RIRs, IAB, IETF, ASO, NRO, ccNSO, ccTLD Registry Operators, and the GNSO" will know that the IANA is performing faithful registry administration of the supplied policies, but asking how those individual bodies are accountable to their communities in policy development is out of scope. Thanks! /John Disclaimer: My views alone.
- [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meeting … Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- [Internetgovtech] Cross community (was: Re: ICANN… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: Docu… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: … Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross comm… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross … John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community JFC Morfin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eric Burger
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Jari Arkko