Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> Wed, 23 July 2014 21:47 UTC
Return-Path: <avri@acm.org>
X-Original-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74471A030B for <internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:47:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.165
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kwQIjAOIKgsH for <internetgovtech@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from atl4mhob10.myregisteredsite.com (atl4mhob10.myregisteredsite.com [209.17.115.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4FDA1A016F for <internetgovtech@iab.org>; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.205]) by atl4mhob10.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s6NLl0KY016714 for <internetgovtech@iab.org>; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:47:00 -0400
Received: (qmail 1469 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jul 2014 21:47:00 -0000
X-TCPREMOTEIP: 68.15.42.104
X-Authenticated-UID: avri@ella.com
Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (avri@ella.com@68.15.42.104) by 0 with ESMTPA; 23 Jul 2014 21:47:00 -0000
Message-ID: <53D02D53.6070501@acm.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:46:59 -0400
From: Avri Doria <avri@acm.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: internetgovtech@iab.org
References: <A193D048-2B67-469A-93BA-C61BB362DA75@vigilsec.com> <53CD1E8A.1060804@acm.org> <FA4238C4-ADDC-435F-9591-E3B074C2F6F6@vigilsec.com> <53CD2300.5050307@acm.org> <20140721143105.GH16966@mx1.yitter.info> <53CD291E.1020801@acm.org> <9045EC0A-E123-4CDC-B87F-5BC32C644C85@istaff.org> <53CD57E8.4000909@acm.org> <B7163126-31B6-4CC6-A711-F225051C294A@istaff.org> <53CD8F41.9060909@gih.com> <53CD939D.5020001@cisco.com> <9DE8F705-9748-407D-8E77-7B787ACD9873@gmail.com> <53CE4B39.1090202@acm.org> <53D016B6.2020000@gih.com> <53D01E6B.8020606@gmail.com> <53D025F3.5050708@acm.org> <53D02828.1030805@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <53D02828.1030805@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 140722-1, 07/22/2014), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/internetgovtech/hyyII2dkOXLOREenv99seWho90c
Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
X-BeenThere: internetgovtech@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Internet Governance and IETF technical work <internetgovtech.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/internetgovtech>, <mailto:internetgovtech-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.iab.org/mail-archive/web/internetgovtech/>
List-Post: <mailto:internetgovtech@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:internetgovtech-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/internetgovtech>, <mailto:internetgovtech-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 21:47:03 -0000
Hi, On 23-Jul-14 17:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 24/07/2014 09:15, Avri Doria wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 23-Jul-14 16:43, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> It would be absurd to define new mechanisms if the existing ones are >>> fully satisfactory. >> >> ah the old 'if it ain't broke' conundrum. >> >> Thing is, while it is not broken for some, it is broken for others. >> >> For me, as an example at this point, I see breakage on things like the >> self established ability of the IETF to unilaterally decide that a >> protocol mandates removing labels from the list of available TLD labels. > > Can you be specific, since I really don't what you mean? > RFC 6761 Special Use Domain Names https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6761 Allows for protocol that meet certain conditions to reserve TLDs. >> >> As a long time participant in the IETF, I see how natural this decision >> is for the the IETF and a part of me cheers at the simplicity of this >> solution for any number of issues. >> >> As a member of the ICANN GNSO Council I am outraged at the idea because >> it is a policy decision that the technical arm of the enterprise has no >> business making. >> >> To whom is the IETF accountable in making this decision? Just itself? > > What does that have to do with ICANN or IANA accountability? Well this and IETF act with regard to IANA entries in a area where ICANN might think it get a say. To whom is IANA accountable in making the reservation? the IETF. But ICANN is responsible for policy regarding TLDs. It gets to tell IANA what to do with TLDs. It seems to me that it is what could be called a cross-accountabilty example. IETF 'quite rightly' says it controls protocol parameters and it can do what it pleases with them despite any policy implications that may occur that it may or may not have considered. It tells IANA to make these changes. IANA arrangements with IETF says do what IETF says. As long as we stick to a single point of accountability for each function we have no way out of this problem. I therefore argue that there has to be accountability mechanisms that cross the 'jurisdictions'. And this is but one simple issue. avri
- [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meeting … Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- [Internetgovtech] Cross community (was: Re: ICANN… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: Docu… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: … Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross comm… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross … John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community JFC Morfin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eric Burger
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Jari Arkko