Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 23 July 2014 22:36 UTC
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Message-ID: <53D038EF.1000909@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:36:31 +1200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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To: Avri Doria <avri@acm.org>
References: <A193D048-2B67-469A-93BA-C61BB362DA75@vigilsec.com> <53CD1E8A.1060804@acm.org> <FA4238C4-ADDC-435F-9591-E3B074C2F6F6@vigilsec.com> <53CD2300.5050307@acm.org> <20140721143105.GH16966@mx1.yitter.info> <53CD291E.1020801@acm.org> <9045EC0A-E123-4CDC-B87F-5BC32C644C85@istaff.org> <53CD57E8.4000909@acm.org> <B7163126-31B6-4CC6-A711-F225051C294A@istaff.org> <53CD8F41.9060909@gih.com> <53CD939D.5020001@cisco.com> <9DE8F705-9748-407D-8E77-7B787ACD9873@gmail.com> <53CE4B39.1090202@acm.org> <53D016B6.2020000@gih.com> <53D01E6B.8020606@gmail.com> <53D025F3.5050708@acm.org> <53D02828.1030805@gmail.com> <53D02D53.6070501@acm.org>
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Subject: Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community
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Hi Avri, On 24/07/2014 09:46, Avri Doria wrote: > Hi, > > On 23-Jul-14 17:24, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> On 24/07/2014 09:15, Avri Doria wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> On 23-Jul-14 16:43, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>> It would be absurd to define new mechanisms if the existing ones are >>>> fully satisfactory. >>> ah the old 'if it ain't broke' conundrum. >>> >>> Thing is, while it is not broken for some, it is broken for others. >>> >>> For me, as an example at this point, I see breakage on things like the >>> self established ability of the IETF to unilaterally decide that a >>> protocol mandates removing labels from the list of available TLD labels. >> Can you be specific, since I really don't what you mean? >> > > RFC 6761 Special Use Domain Names > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6761 > > Allows for protocol that meet certain conditions to reserve TLDs. Indeed, but this is a more precise instantiation of the exception to the policy exception in the IETF/ICANN MoU from 2000 - nothing new here in principle or in practice. It's been exercised a number of times since then, but quite rarely: "Note that (a) assignments of domain names for technical uses (such as domain names for inverse DNS lookup), (b) assignments of specialised address blocks (such as multicast or anycast blocks), and (c) experimental assignments are not considered to be policy issues, and shall remain subject to the provisions of this Section 4." > >>> As a long time participant in the IETF, I see how natural this decision >>> is for the the IETF and a part of me cheers at the simplicity of this >>> solution for any number of issues. >>> >>> As a member of the ICANN GNSO Council I am outraged at the idea because >>> it is a policy decision that the technical arm of the enterprise has no >>> business making. Yes it does, because it was explicitly excepted from the agreement. It's unfortunate if that wasn't well understood when the GNSO Council was created. >>> >>> To whom is the IETF accountable in making this decision? Just itself? >> What does that have to do with ICANN or IANA accountability? > > Well this and IETF act with regard to IANA entries in a area where ICANN > might think it get a say. > > To whom is IANA accountable in making the reservation? the IETF. > > But ICANN is responsible for policy regarding TLDs. It gets to tell > IANA what to do with TLDs. Except for the exception signed off 14 years ago. > It seems to me that it is what could be called a cross-accountabilty > example. > > IETF 'quite rightly' says it controls protocol parameters and it can do > what it pleases with them despite any policy implications that may occur > that it may or may not have considered. It tells IANA to make these > changes. IANA arrangements with IETF says do what IETF says. As long > as we stick to a single point of accountability for each function we > have no way out of this problem. I therefore argue that there has to be > accountability mechanisms that cross the 'jurisdictions'. Oh, in the general case I certainly agree that the 3 major areas should consult with each other when there's an overlap issue. But I don't quite see how this impacts accountability as such. In the instance you mention, was the existence of the draft and the IETF last call etc. notified in any way to the ICANN TLG or (maybe indirectly) to the GNSO? If not, that was probably an omission IMHO, but I still don't see where accountability comes in. Brian > > > And this is but one simple issue. > > avri > > _______________________________________________ > Internetgovtech mailing list > Internetgovtech@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/internetgovtech >
- [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meeting … Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Avri Doria
- [Internetgovtech] Cross community (was: Re: ICANN… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: Docu… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] off topic: labels (was Re: … Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Eric Brunner-Williams
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross comm… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Policy aspects (was: Cross … John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Documents from the ICG Meet… S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community JFC Morfin
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eliot Lear
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Russ Housley
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Avri Doria
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community John Curran
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community S Moonesamy
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Seun Ojedeji
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Steve Crocker
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Eric Burger
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Internetgovtech] Cross community Jari Arkko