Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Mon, 01 September 2014 09:57 UTC
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 19:35:33 -0700
To: Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com>, ianaplan@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review
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Hi Eric, At 11:42 31-08-2014, Eric Burger wrote: >I like the humor, like the MIB dig. However, for the substantive >comments, we should fix. :-) >I think the disconnect is /direction/ for the IANA protocol >parameters function comes from the IETF, which is an embodiment of >the Internet technical community. The /input/ for the function is >capably provided, not the /function/ itself. The language needs fixing. > >How about: >The Internet technical community, through the IETF, has in the past >and for the foreseeable future will provide direction to the IANA >protocol parameter registry. The stated position is: "The IETF Protocol Parameter Registry function is undertaken under the auspices of the Internet Architecture Board." The above basically says that the IETF considers that function as an IETF matter. If you (used in the general sense) call it "IANA protocol parameters function" it is no longer an IETF matter. One of the questions I asked was about the "Internet technical community". The problem with using the term is that it is ill-defined. I'll step back; there was a discussion about "global multistakeholder community" on this mailing list around the beginning of this month. It was concluded that it is better to use the term "Internet community". My reading of the question is that it is about the IETF Community's use of the IANA functions. The less difficult way to answer that is to build from RFC 6220 (and the relevant BCPs if that is necessary). I am taking into account the arguments that the IETF or the IAB has made previously. It make sense to be consistent or have an explanation for a change in direction or else there will be a loss of credibility. >It is not that it is not aligned with the stated position of the >IETF, it is that it is the IETF community, including implementers, >"the IETF's primary users of the IETF > standards and other documents," that use the IANA protocol > parameter registries. How about: > >Many IETF protocols make use of commonly defined protocol >parameters. Implementers use these parameters. Implementers are the >IETF's primary users of the IETF standards and other documents. A >globally available registry contains the parameter values and a >pointer to documentation of the associated semantic intent. This >registry, the IANA protocol parameter registry, provides this >service to ensure consistent interpretation of these parameter >values by independent implementations. The above looks better. It uses the term IANA protocol parameter registry though. Please see my previous comment about that. >RIR and ICANN people regularly come to IETF meetings, which means >they participate. As we say, in-person attendance is not required >for participation. Likewise, email discussions are also not required >for participation. Thus, there is no inconsistency. Moreover, >participation does not require posting. I will bet there are a lot >of ICANN and RIR people subscribed (i.e., participating) to IETF email lists. The point was that: (i) It is possible to argue either way, i.e. people participate or people do not participate. (ii) It does not add anything substantive to the response. What you (used in the general sense) could do here is to explain that there is coordination and how it is being done when there is an overlap. >See my other note to Richard. Thanks, I read that. From RFC 6220: "Any intellectual property rights of the IETF protocol parameter assignment information, including the IETF protocol parameter registry and its contents, are to be held by the IETF Trust." The IETF Trust is based in the Commonwealth of Virginia. There is also the following: "In addition, the IAOC has the responsibility to ensure long-term access, stability, and uniqueness across all such registries. This responsibility is of particular significance in the event that a relation with a Protocol Parameter Registry Operator is terminated." And this is the proposed IETF response: "Because of the nature of the agreement, questions of jurisdiction are immaterial." Mr Hill commented about disputes arising out of the agreement in his message. I don't think that is an issue as it is covered in the agreement. Mr Huston commented about an issue on March 13 which I'll quote (out of context): "I have absolutely no idea whether a) the IETF itself is an ISOC activity per se and b) issues about the intellectual property rights associated with the protocol parameter registry contents vest with any of the preceding bodies." There has already been some public discussion about (b). I have not seen any answer to it. I am okay if the IETF says that intellectual property rights are not important. >How? Any text for what you think it is / should be? It's an IAB matter. The term "IETF process" may or may not cover that. There is already the following as part of the response: "RFC 6220 specifies the role and function of the protocol parameters registry, which is critical to IETF standards processes and IETF protocols. The IAB, on behalf of the IETF, has the responsibility to define and manage the relationship with the protocol registry operator role. This responsibility includes the selection and management of the protocol parameter registry operator, as well as management of the parameter registration process and the guidelines for parameter allocation." In my opinion it is a matter of fitting that into the response. As a general comment, there is the following under "required proposal elements": "associated references to source documents of specific policies/practices". A plausible response would be one which could be substantiated with references. Otherwise (in my opinion), it will look like the IETF is not comfortable with what it has written. Regards, S. Moonesamy
- [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eric Burger
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eric Burger
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eric Burger
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Miles Fidelman
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review David Conrad
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eric Burger
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Leslie Daigle (TCE)
- [Ianaplan] How to handle "customer" text and orde… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review S Moonesamy
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Justine Lera
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Richard Hill
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review David Conrad
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review David Conrad
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review David Conrad
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Marc Blanchet
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Suzanne Woolf
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Milton L Mueller
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review David Conrad
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Eliot Lear
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Avri Doria
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review - more (po… John Curran
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review JFC Morfin
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review JFC Morfin