Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review

Suzanne Woolf <> Fri, 24 October 2014 12:50 UTC

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From: Suzanne Woolf <>
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2014 08:50:53 -0400
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To: S Moonesamy <>
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Cc:, Eliot Lear <>
Subject: Re: [Ianaplan] A draft for your review
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On Oct 24, 2014, at 5:02 AM, S Moonesamy <> wrote:

> Hi Eliot,
> At 03:01 02-09-2014, Eliot Lear wrote:
>> Well, but that was just the start of my list.  Steve Crocker is the chair of the board of ICANN, and he's also the author of RFC 1 (among many others), a former security AD, and an occasional contributor.
> From draft-ietf-ianaplan-icg-response-01:
>  "It is important to note that the IETF includes anyone who wishes to
>   participate, including anyone from ICANN or the regional Internet
>   registries (RIRs), and many people from those organizations regularly
>   do."
> None of the persons listed at participate in DNS discussions on IETF mailing lists.  That can be easily verified by looking at  I looked at I do not see any person affiliated with ICANN or the RIRs participating on that mailing list.  I looked at There was the CEO of ARIN and the CTO of ICANN participating in the discussions.

Off the top of my head, just in the groups I follow closely: There is another ICANN staffer I know of participating in DPRIVE; he also has a long history as a protocol designer and implementer in matters DNS and WHOIS/PROVREG/WEIRDS. There's at least one person who's held formal roles in the GNSO who has also been an IETF participant, including discussions in DNSOP (and at least a couple more who have posted to IANAPLAN). The CTO of APNIC posted just the other day to WEIRDS, and some other APNIC staff are extremely well-known in DNS and routing groups in the IETF. Staff from RIPE and LACNIC participate in DNSOP discussions and other DNS-related work such as recent BOFs. Assorted technologists, some very senior, associated with TLD operators participate in both ICANN and IETF discussions, and various TLD operators sponsor IETF participation for employees and contractors as contributors, including WG chairs and IAB members from time to time.

It depends a bit on what you mean by "affiliated," if you're seriously trying to assess cross-participation, but if nothing else, experience suggests that counting noses (or email addresses) isn't actually that helpful.

Would it be better if there was slightly more overlap among ICANN/RIR staff, participants in their processes from other organizations, and participation in the IETF? Probably. (For example, we'd want input from people intimately familiar with matters ICANN in any process to revisit RFC 6761, whether they were ICANN staff or not.) Is the option open to everyone? Yes. Do they sometimes take advantage of it? Yes. 

Eliot's language could stand some tinkering, but I can live with it. Since I owe him text on another point, I'll suggest while I'm here the following revision:

"It is important to note that the IETF includes anyone who wishes to participate, including staff or other participants from ICANN or the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs), and people affiliated with those organizations regularly do."

> I haven't seen your list yet. :-)  In my opinion the quoted text (see above) is to make ICANN and the RIRs look good.  That might be appropriate in the IAB Stream instead of the IETF Stream.

I don't agree.

(ICANN and IETF participant)