Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY]
"info@isoc.org.ec" <info@isoc.org.ec> Sat, 14 February 2015 15:46 UTC
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From: "info@isoc.org.ec" <info@isoc.org.ec>
Subject: Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY]
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 10:46:13 -0500
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/FoxlDC8DDhnkzKi9KscVz-Yqd4E>
Cc: ietf <ietf@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Carlos Vera Quintana <cveraq@gmail.com>, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
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Savings are welcomed instead fees. What if you put all that gold bureaucracy in 3 stars hotels and not in 5? Fly economy, have offices in cheap places and countries.. Being smart saves money and it's fun.. A lot more that looking at the users's pocket.. But off course it's not as easy Carlos Internet Society Ecuador www.isoc.org.ec Síguenos @isocec > El 13/2/2015, a las 19:35, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> escribió: > > Carlos, > > That isn't the point. Somebody has to pay for the things paid for > by the existing meeting fees. Suppose that we improve the remote > participation technology such that, say, 500 people who would normally > attend a meeting stay at home. That's a direct reduction of income by > say $350000, three times a year. So the IETF is out of pocket by $1M/year. > The actual reduction in meeting costs would be very slight. The money has > to come from somewhere. > > Does this bother me? Yes, a lot. But it's reality. > > Brian > > >> On 14/02/2015 13:13, Carlos Vera Quintana wrote: >> Oh I see. Free is not serious enough.. >> >> Carlos Vera Quintana >> 0988141143 >> Sígueme @cveraq >> >>>>> El 13/2/2015, a las 19:03, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> escribió: >>>> >>>> On 14/02/2015 12:52, info@isoc.org.ec wrote: >>>> I guess I miss something. Some "smart" initiative to get > money from participants? >>> >>> No. A discussion how to make remote participation a serious alternative >>> to travelling to meetings, without breaking the budget. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> >>>> Internet Society Ecuador >>>> www.isoc.org.ec >>>> Síguenos @isocec >>>> >>>>>> El 13/2/2015, a las 17:47, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> escribió: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14/02/2015 10:50, Brian Trammell wrote: >>>>>> hi Mary, all, >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13 Feb 2015, at 22:30, Mary Barnes <mary.h.barnes@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2015, at 3:27 PM, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> wrote: >>>>>>>> In the past I've been nervous about giving remote participation too much >>>>>>>> power in part because I'm worried about how that impacts meeting fees >>>>>>>> and in part because I value cross-area involvement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's possible that we could collect meeting fees from remote attendees, offering a hardship exemption for those who can't afford it. That would depend on remote attendance working better than it does now, I think, but it would be unfortunate if the main impediment to making remote attendance work well were that we didn't want to lose meeting revenue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [MB] I totally agree on this latter point. I'm very conflicted about charging for remote participation, but perhaps something nominal. It's also quite possible that if we improve the quality, we will get more remote participants. >>>>>> >>>>>> A requirement (at least at first) to allocate n% of remote participation fees directly to expenses related to the improvement of remote participation would make this a lot more feasible. >>>>> >>>>> But it begins to smell like a poll tax. Some people participate remotely >>>>> because they simply can't justify the travel expenditure; if it costs (say) >>>>> $200 to participate remotely, that would be enough to keep some people out. >>>>> How the Secretariat could possibly validate hardship cases remotely >>>>> is beyond me. >>>>> >>>>> Also, does particpate mean "watch and listen" or "watch, listen and speak"? >>>>> I find it hard to imagine paying $200 just to watch and listen. >>>>> >>>>> (Of course, I made up "$200" but it does need to be an amount of money >>>>> that's worth collecting, and in that case it will be a significant issue >>>>> for, say, a student in a developing country.) >>>>> >>>>> Brian C > >
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- Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY Melinda Shore
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- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ted Lemon
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ray Pelletier
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Mary Barnes
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Mary Barnes
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- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Dave Cridland
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- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… John C Klensin
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- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ted Lemon
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Randy Bush
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- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Dave Cridland
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- Re: Remote participation fees John C Klensin
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ted Lemon
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ted Lemon
- Re: Remote participation fees Ted Lemon
- Interim meetings - changing the way we work t.p.
- Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY Michael Richardson
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Michael Richardson
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Dave Cridland
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY Dave Cridland
- RE: Remote participation fees Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: Remote participation fees Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: Remote participation fees John C Klensin
- Re: Remote participation fees Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Melinda Shore
- Re: Remote participation fees Stewart Bryant
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Ted Lemon
- Re: Remote participation fees Ted Lemon
- RE: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… James Gannon
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Carlos Vera Quintana
- Re: Remote participation fees [Re: Updating BCP 1… Carlos Vera Quintana
- Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: Updating BCP 10 -- NomCom ELEGIBILITY Murray S. Kucherawy
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- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work t.p.
- Re: Remote participation fees Tim Chown
- Re: Remote participation fees Ted Lemon
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- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Ted Lemon
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Dave Crocker
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benson Schliesser
- Re: Remote participation fees Nico Williams
- Re: Remote participation fees Nico Williams
- Re: Remote participation fees John C Klensin
- "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing the w… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… Benson Schliesser
- Re: Remote participation fees Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… Yoav Nir
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… t.p.
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benoit Claise
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… Lou Berger
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Lou Berger
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benoit Claise
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benoit Claise
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work John C Klensin
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Alia Atlas
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Mary Barnes
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Dave Crocker
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work t.p.
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benson Schliesser
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Nico Williams
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… Benson Schliesser
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Andy Bierman
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benson Schliesser
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work John C Klensin
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Lou Berger
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Thomas D. Nadeau
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Lou Berger
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Roy T. Fielding
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Brian E Carpenter
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Nico Williams
- RE: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Christer Holmberg
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Alia Atlas
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: "Blue sheets" [ Interim meetings - changing t… t.p.
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work t.p.
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Mary Barnes
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Nico Williams
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Stephen Farrell
- Re: sweets to the sweet, was 'Paywall, ' IETF sel… John Levine
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… l.wood
- Re: 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency, increasing… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… John C Klensin
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Randy Bush
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… John C Klensin
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… joel jaeggli
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Ted Lemon
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benoit Claise
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Dave Cridland
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Pranesh Prakash
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Diversity] 'Paywall, ' IETF self-sufficiency… Dave Cridland
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Andy Bierman
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work Benoit Claise
- Re: Interim meetings - changing the way we work t.p.