Re: Concerns about Singapore

<nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> Fri, 08 April 2016 10:38 UTC

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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:38:11 +0000 (UTC)
From: <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>
To: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>, Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se>
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Subject: Re: Concerns about Singapore
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On a positive note:

Pope Francis urges greater acceptance of homosexuals, non-traditional families  
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/08/europe/vatican-pope-family/index.html?adkey=bn
 
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360



________________________________
From: Dhruv Dhody <dhruv.ietf@gmail.com>
To: Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> 
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2016 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Concerns about Singapore



Hi Leif, 


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Leif Johansson <leifj@mnt.se> wrote:

On 2016-04-07 20:30, Dhruv Dhody wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> I am happy to see that LGBT inclusiveness taken seriously by the IETF.
>> But looking at the law on the books in black and white, would be doing a
>> disservice to a large region of the world (with a large number of
>> Internet users).
>
>I don't parse that actually.
>

​Sorry if I was not clear. 
​

>How is reading the law of Singapore "doing disservice to a large region
>of the world?"
>

​No, I meant that IETF would be doing a disservice to a large part of the world (that has on its books these laws). We need to have a nuanced approach and this being another factor in a multitude of factors. Having a blanket rule that the IETF will not go to any such place is something I disagree with.   
 

>I don't think "yes but many who live in Singapore are nice people"
>nor "yes but those laws are hardly ever applied" are useful arguments
>in this discussion but maybe thats just me...
>
>I am pretty sure that Ted (to pick a random example) would be able to
>travel to Singapore for an IETF and be /personally/ quite safe because
>as you say the laws of the land would be selectively applied.
>
>That is always the problem of selectively applied laws: they are used
>when it is convenient... and are often used to intimidate. That is why
>censorship is often self-administered in countries where there are
>censorship laws "on the books".
>

​I agree with you. I understand this well, as an openly gay person, living in a country with such laws​ on the book. 
I hope these laws go away but till then, having a blanket rule against taking IETF to a big part of the world is something I find wrong. 

Thanks! 
Dhruv


>        Cheers Leif
>
>