Re: Concerns about Singapore

Ladislav Lhotka <> Thu, 07 April 2016 20:08 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BC612D60A for <>; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.01
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hVDOfeNIdLe4 for <>; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8184D12D59F for <>; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 13:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:e8f5:e53e:2cba:ae41] (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:176:e8f5:e53e:2cba:ae41]) by (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 358AC18015E; Thu, 7 Apr 2016 22:08:06 +0200 (CEST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;; s=default; t=1460059688; bh=qVMwRgZmU2x/O6qBPTnsVMmyy623IRkspTCCeqfwIjU=; h=From:Date:To; b=aQjSXHtneZ3jRa3LvnR9BViCgoq/XcGEvtbhaOYtA3rPyS1vP2flqDnK6Xni7/PTG HB32eA7VecckWJV86sLEpuMAzMA6Qr2p17DH/IfGua8h5eNV8RBMQQck56YXiu5ymF Ukdb+/ZAktGKHntfaSvooRR6KzpfAN2iUSrEdrhY=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\))
Subject: Re: Concerns about Singapore
From: Ladislav Lhotka <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:08:02 -0300
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
To: Mikael Abrahamsson <>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124)
X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.7 at mail
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Archived-At: <>
Cc: " Discussion" <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2016 20:08:13 -0000

> On 07 Apr 2016, at 17:00, Mikael Abrahamsson <> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, Leif Johansson wrote:
>>> ​No, I meant that IETF would be doing a disservice to a large part of
>>> the world (that has on its books these laws). We need to have a nuanced
>>> approach and this being another factor in a multitude of factors. Having
>>> a blanket rule that the IETF will not go to any such place is something
>>> I disagree with.
>> Where do you draw the line then?
> I think it's impossible to draw a firm line. Most of it is grey area.
> I'm sure I could come up with arguments why we should not go to USA or Sweden for our meetings, because neither place if perfect.

Right. And since Leif mentioned censorship, let me note that IETF already held a meeting in a country where censorship, and Internet censorship in particular, is commonplace.

> There are numerous very "offensive" (or replace with "weird" or some other word) laws on the books in most countries, and I do think we have to look at how those laws are applied as part of our process in deciding where to go.

Yes, and speaking of myself, I am prepared, to a reasonable degree, to adjust my behaviour to those laws (and cultural habits as well).


> There are no perfect places to go. There are bad and less bad ones.
> -- 
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email:

Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C