Re: Old directions in social media.
Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Wed, 06 January 2021 18:27 UTC
Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040353A110A for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:27:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.012
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 429YuIdifa_9 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:27:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pg1-x536.google.com (mail-pg1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7956B3A1104 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 6 Jan 2021 10:27:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pg1-x536.google.com with SMTP id i7so2801579pgc.8 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:27:54 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=D44EEKgk2ry6pnAFSDcALRdHtSVPoM/w6lPLhLWlNbM=; b=lNh6p+TWI+aCNfsqsLFe0ToFydihKp4BizjVcFVZ06AhP60PC6hpQek0GzoLFc97Bt PlimxngHqTyexbTZ59MEqkIO1OL0ozXvRZUpuZNeZ9QJdR8PeGHYfZijLHEYOKQjRoiA LygvD41xU1tbpaYCQH5pYjyae+YOiQ5nqRe483jULHH8Vp/ZAYbs93dlFDhd5xckisfk Vib3sTuj0eRRVADUEZqc2KSqJe6PhmEQOun/k10bogtyGcW7RoEeNe92W7Tc7CjbJOf1 6P2+KtM+To63TisfFXGtG+VQk+bPWFqtAYYJZuI3xiTnV9aFv2dZDxcvlT79i9WGUN5E J4rg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=D44EEKgk2ry6pnAFSDcALRdHtSVPoM/w6lPLhLWlNbM=; b=U5Oo4saev6Qg6yofWsvwia/JEkpO5OSC1Wx3P3i4JpPah+bib/DsJ9U3xNgQhDEFCQ Qji+e6nJk+cBszLyA/YeMVZx6/jeLFrL6RPyfK5HFzK/6oJIyzNYUVj/s+i3lqk23Z95 cS5me3I3t3AKL8sO59KI7osQ1ruzIfhGJBw/MUzZVcqdfUcsB6aXvevMyw5b+wyUtnKV M/E3oLCtUM0EvlzAamR6e4Luyqoq+RR9jVPbhq0F8nSFz2h+OZOOihwSFsJfIAo4v8va NY76QbL5+NCTuoOFu4pgVvAwIunJfmurifrGuMTg2cD/ojG47WuOc0WX3PoRR10JfR5W 6k6w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532zd8UiqFSkV2gvbNFcA5sDO9pAz1EIcI1M+4I6OBPl2XHKA3qK PmcixNk3F3OyugZCIsQFYIkGto0GqfOTTptp
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoSF+YFv0iGuarv2OE8U9eVSYTcENKCTkZvs4swqcABybAjuIuWiJX4t2jkevPUtuZn3UtwA==
X-Received: by 2002:a65:50c8:: with SMTP id s8mr5907816pgp.68.1609957673508; Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-39-88.volcanocom.com. [107.182.39.88]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e5sm2881658pjs.0.2021.01.06.10.27.52 for <ietf@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:27:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Old directions in social media.
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <CAMm+Lwg1-pxKU8vMinFDUbVca52VgFzTOOSJMnJjaUJvF6PLew@mail.gmail.com> <519a0e4d-7102-fac8-1517-04c590a80080@network-heretics.com> <MN2PR11MB43668BD4EE84EDCCA9C8062AB5D00@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <10a8e6e2-9665-3829-04a6-b1a58a0fffd1@mtcc.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 10:27:51 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR11MB43668BD4EE84EDCCA9C8062AB5D00@MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1ACEFE4C7267DA4173200F85"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/gzXUthzWWa8ufcbnz6JeNLNwE24>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:27:56 -0000
On 1/6/21 10:18 AM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > I’m not really wanting to get dragged into this debate … but I think > that it might be interesting to try and objectively compare the > quality of the documents produced by WGs making use of github vs those > just using email. > > One swallow does not a summer make, but I note that the 4 QUIC > documents that are in IESG review all seem to be exceptionally > polished and well written, and I understand that the QUIC WG has a > strong Github based editing process. Of course, there could be many > factors as to why this is (e.g., maybe the editors are native English > speakers, these documents probably have had more review and > discussion) but it also seems plausible that easier collaborative > editing/updates might be a factor in the high quality output from the WG. > > I'm fairly certain that it has far more to do with who is authoring/editing the documents than any tools. My favorite whipping boy rfc 8226 is terrible and woefully underspecified, and when that was pointed out in last call, it got aggressive push back. Tools are not going to change that sort of problem. What we'd need is AI's that can emulate the normative language and poke holes in it. Sometimes the I's are up to the task but too often they are not, or are ignored. Mike
- Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Larry Masinter
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kurt Andersen (IETF)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. - Issue track… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. - Issue track… Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Fred Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Stephen Farrell
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Theodore Ts'o
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. avri doria
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Fred Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Mark Nottingham
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Wes Hardaker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- RE: Old directions in social media. Larry Masinter
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Vittorio Bertola
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel Halpern Direct
- RE: Old directions in social media. ned+ietf
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Tim Bray
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Stephen Farrell
- RE: Old directions in social media. Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Old directions in social media. Eliot Lear
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Carsten Bormann
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Thomas
- Re: Old directions in social media. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Old directions in social media. Wes Hardaker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. Kyle Rose
- Re: Old directions in social media. tom petch
- RE: Old directions in social media. ned+ietf
- Re: Old directions in social media. Nick Hilliard
- Re: Old directions in social media. Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Michael Richardson
- Re: Old directions in social media. John C Klensin
- Re: Old directions in social media. Eliot Lear
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Salz, Rich
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Old directions in social media. Keith Moore
- Re: Old directions in social media. Lloyd W