[111attendees] Please change the Subject line [was Re: test]
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Fri, 23 July 2021 15:49 UTC
Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: 111attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: 111attendees@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F19E3A07CE for <111attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B5AOxJwwBapo for <111attendees@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4EEB3A07D2 for <111attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id m20-20020a05600c4f54b029024e75a15716so944903wmq.2 for <111attendees@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=8bItpDxFw4VkQ+VCDLI2jZtMXVfQ+wSEz4dn74r2lIM=; b=EyD8jHrNVxLzFTBilFz/ozXD7oHs30e6fcZhqVSsCucngR0oUhw46eayzqPN+c34eV armlTAyEbNPZc2J+13zLs9bWjwaul/GAbKp4F05PPiuJ3YSDFJ+rhhLGYMNtOz23xWTO Co1wxgt7T+rGGV4cfWw6UU8EZ3hfMInLNj/0jQIEf+hvWiHS8vCVqceq+kugYwG6I8/+ RB2HWcmM4R7H7k+OKQaCXn46pvToBXV28153pcYIyrvfHfIEKCQgOfPlHdQLmhOwc7dy VZPVNDxAB2VIIOqrut1wRWKujf4j46iHlwDfnLjHvdfALltaCU+BBG0oFNsStgy305B7 un8A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=8bItpDxFw4VkQ+VCDLI2jZtMXVfQ+wSEz4dn74r2lIM=; b=BOVbSWaS0ozFptv4ebWkB0Mj5UsrGoqkkRMlO1FKBxg5AYpibeLqKOSMzD6Oj6XEaQ ncrpjeFaQl9Oj7mxsoV/R/cibMa/YJ/zUKHFZzQVWikzqF1LHssHKRszbL2qKKqo0+A6 LnsUEw600h0kWR6Wiw7FBs73H9NvJ8/r1UKk6Fy9/bc+gHk3Qs1l0Xb2goW0HSO6vK70 YwMjDUfmRix+S285C9Dcfy/kv14MZvDOI+edQ1RjkN8DyhVLsowkmb1Xz/2h9b2LwFF5 W7cjqXlhsZVuxbDnKxJC53jyUSu5tUqbHc4p75nk+IdSABaQQrQ9DypiZ0pweZX1srdr wY0w==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531LeWE3qeRKs5L5a6OtVVISRyhTNH5oglZRRP1CES4fJj18vRNp hiPn7MmdcDEBfAdmtrB73vTYh+KZoVY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwuLi/AJQ1U2XdHSxpEdlsKE8/oXHyePItIZ3NgllDgTCAUovmVj3RHpRgZzQzAIkLgWN9hfA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3b93:: with SMTP id n19mr14823432wms.3.1627055377018; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5a00:659:318b:a87c:6e52:7e93? ([2601:647:5a00:659:318b:a87c:6e52:7e93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z7sm20279707wrt.94.2021.07.23.08.49.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <23F43D08-87F6-469D-8CB3-620E94A3EBC1@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B3ADB492-F987-47F3-8316-E63FBFACBCDA"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\))
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 08:49:33 -0700
In-Reply-To: <CACTP9nuGWT4Sxn2N4KpAbNCOV2dss8kVYnfGK77Skzx-Esuj=w@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
To: 111attendees@ietf.org
References: <c211bfe6-0ffb-b4d8-a3b8-840ab9ee0368@gmail.com> <af8652ed-179a-78d5-eb47-02302ba5e5c2@labs.htt-consult.com> <F7AA1B7F-23E8-48FB-B89B-AB2DAF1F1F8A@gmail.com> <CAAm_rSJcKNJchYt2_CEwBFQapQ3bDfbPXrJQkHQnsKW2i193Dw@mail.gmail.com> <ecad2565-6447-2065-53c6-f46d55666888@nthpermutation.com> <m2wnphq4ko.wl-randy@psg.com> <758515384.164289.1627031655741@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <0043DCA8-C794-4146-AC2A-F1600ACA2D98@tzi.org> <20210723132655.GI57276@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <914b8bfd-064f-974a-f997-bfda1a70cdad@labs.htt-consult.com> <CAPt1N1=kX6=A_6=HOFgTqTxu=V5Lui+GPd+A=nDXPPLC7_hLUQ@mail.gmail.com> <2D019E48-68B5-49E3-B315-4169F83146EE@tzi.org> <5C1EEE9E-AEB5-418C-B2E9-66EA1C839903@mjmontpetit.com> <CACTP9nuGWT4Sxn2N4KpAbNCOV2dss8kVYnfGK77Skzx-Esuj=w@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/111attendees/h5YzVq1ZTrpTMEg5f0BCVYnptVQ>
Subject: [111attendees] Please change the Subject line [was Re: test]
X-BeenThere: 111attendees@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list for IETF 111 attendees <111attendees.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/111attendees>, <mailto:111attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/111attendees/>
List-Post: <mailto:111attendees@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:111attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees>, <mailto:111attendees-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 15:49:54 -0000
Hey, Please change the subject line on this list to something close to the topic being discussed. It’s clearly no longer about testing the attendee list. Bob > On Jul 23, 2021, at 8:30 AM, David Brown <david.brown@linaro.org> wrote: > > Even corporately, for someone like myself, where my IETF participation is just a small part of my job. It isn't too difficult to justify the small charge for online participation. Once travel is factored in, the in-person participation becomes much more difficult to justify. This is the main reason that I've only been able to participate, so far, online. I've appreciated how much better that works for me, with these ones where everyone is on line. > > Online is challenging when there is a drastic timezone difference. With on-site travel, it is easier to adapt, since everything around you is in the new timezone. It doesn't work so well with remote participation. > > David > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 9:08 AM Marie-Jose Montpetit <marie@mjmontpetit.com> wrote: > Another aspect that needs some thoughts is cost. > > In person participation even if you live in an Airbnb, a 2* hotel or with friends and not at the 5* IETF hotels (even at reduced rates) is a major monetary investment. If we want go get more people involved this has to be in the equation. I am IRTF of course but to get more academic participation the economics are part of it. > > But there is more: participants without corporate accounts (see costs above), with family or teaching obligations or with other issues have always participated remotely. So we can just extend it? > > And while I really want to start seeing you guys again we need to be realistic. > > mjm > > Marie-Jose Montpetit, Ing. Ph.D. > marie@mjmontpetit.com > > > > >> On Jul 23, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Ted, >> >> You approach this from the angle we have been using for a decade now: remote participation as a backpack on a local meeting. As you say, that doesn’t work too well. >> >> Covid-19 gives us a unique chance to actually have the majority of the IETF participants (and not just the weird ones :-) be online. >> >> Re failures: I would prefer not to have them, instead of worrying how the characteristics of the meeting will change when we do have them. (I remember the plenary when the power in the hotel failed… IIRC, we just stopped the meeting for half an hour; but I’m sure there were productive discussions between the people in the room during this time, and that is fine.) >> >>> Hybrid meetings failed in the past because there was no collective discipline to operate in this way. >> >> (The backpack thing. Remote people are weird, and we’ll make “best effort” (i.e., not much at all) to accommodate them. That, again, is changing.) >> >> All that said, I don’t mind *some* advantages for people who actually travel; but I’m sure those advantages will be on the hallways and not in the meetings. >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> -- >> 111attendees mailing list >> 111attendees@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees > > -- > 111attendees mailing list > 111attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees > -- > 111attendees mailing list > 111attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/111attendees
- [111attendees] test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [111attendees] test ANURAG VIJAY AGRAWAL
- Re: [111attendees] test Jared Mauch
- Re: [111attendees] test ANURAG VIJAY AGRAWAL
- Re: [111attendees] test Ujjwal Sharma
- Re: [111attendees] test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Henk Birkholz
- Re: [111attendees] test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [111attendees] test Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] test STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] test Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] building up interaction credit… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] test Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] test Ole Jacobsen
- Re: [111attendees] test Michael StJohns
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] test Warren Kumari
- Re: [111attendees] test Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [111attendees] test Julia Urbina-Pineda
- Re: [111attendees] test Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] test Randy Bush
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test MORTON JR., AL
- Re: [111attendees] test John C Klensin
- Re: [111attendees] test Sanjeev Gupta
- Re: [111attendees] test Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [111attendees] test Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] test Randy Bush
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test Nigel Hickson
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] test Lars Eggert
- Re: [111attendees] [Ext] Re: test Paul Muchene
- Re: [111attendees] [Ext] Re: test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] [Ext] Re: test Paul Muchene
- Re: [111attendees] test Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [111attendees] test Ted Lemon
- Re: [111attendees] [Ext] Re: test Henk Birkholz
- Re: [111attendees] test Andrew Campling
- Re: [111attendees] test Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test Carsten Bormann
- Re: [111attendees] test Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [111attendees] test Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [111attendees] test Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [111attendees] test David Brown
- Re: [111attendees] test Robert Moskowitz
- [111attendees] Please change the Subject line [wa… Bob Hinden
- Re: [111attendees] test Diego Dujovne
- Re: [111attendees] Please change the Subject line… Jim Reid
- Re: [111attendees] Please change the Subject line… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test Ted Lemon
- Re: [111attendees] multisite remote hybrid meetin… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [111attendees] The joyful benefits of (hybrid… Henk Birkholz
- Re: [111attendees] multisite remote hybrid meetin… Diego Dujovne
- Re: [111attendees] test of 111attendees list and … Oscar Garcia
- [111attendees] future hybrid meeting discuss (was… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [111attendees] test John C Klensin
- Re: [111attendees] multisite remote hybrid meetin… Diego Dujovne
- Re: [111attendees] Planning for hybrid meetings (… Jay Daley
- Re: [111attendees] test Stewart Bryant
- Re: [111attendees] test Stewart Bryant
- Re: [111attendees] test Chukwuka Odele
- Re: [111attendees] test Brian E Carpenter
- [111attendees] Hybrid meetings (was: Re: test) Lars Eggert
- Re: [111attendees] Hybrid meetings (was: Re: test) John C Klensin
- Re: [111attendees] Hybrid meetings (was: Re: test) Lars Eggert
- Re: [111attendees] test Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [111attendees] Hybrid meetings (was: Re: test) Jay Daley