Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: ip traceback)

Hi

Three of the Bar-bofs I attended sofar are "transport negotiation" (IETF-75?) , re-ECN (IETF-75)  and Clouds (IETF-77) , non of them occured in a bar although "transport negotiation" occured at lunch restaurant.

"transport negotiation" and was quite informal and resembled my personal bar-BoF definition the most.

re-ECN was in a ordinary meeting room but was reasonably messy to be called a bar-BoF. 

The Clouds bar-BoF was like an ordinary BoF (with a mike and projector!), it was very well attended (~60 people) but I would dare say that only ~5 people said anything. I left after 20min as the whole subject was way above my head and I should probably not have attended it at all.

I guess Cloubs was much like a real BoF but it lacked an intro, which means that likely only the experts (everybody except me?) knew the necessary details, to me it was only a waste of time.

re-ECN was probably the most succesful bar-BoF as it has already resulted in 3 BoF sessions :-)

"transport negotiation" did not end up in anything, here I believe that there was not enough momentum behind.

Conclusions. Don't have any...

/Ingemar

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 77attendees-bounces@ietf.org 
> [mailto:77attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joerg Ott
> Sent: den 29 mars 2010 20:52
> To: Carsten Bormann
> Cc: 77attendees@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: 
> ip traceback)
> 
> Maybe this was said before: the IETF seems to be 
> over-organizing things.  Bar BOFs used to deliberately be 
> informal gatherings.
> Maybe there is a need for more formal ones; maybe they are 
> something else.
> 
> But the IETF should not start formalizing informal methods.  
> What next?  Do we do pre-Bar-BOFs as informal gatherings?  
> Will we then at some point come up with agendas and room 
> allocations for pre-Bar-BOFs as well?
> 
> One thing not to forget is the perception from the outside 
> how long standardization in the IETF takes.  We should avoid 
> causing statements like "Well, you need to do informal 
> opinion building, then 2-3 bar bofs, then you get to do 2 
> BOFs, and then -- after 2 year, you may end up with a working 
> group..."
> 
> I see us overdoing it here.
> 
> Joerg
> 
> 
> Carsten Bormann wrote:
> > On Mar 29, 2010, at 19:54, Melinda Shore wrote:
> > 
> >> I'd like to see informal
> >> gatherings stay as informal as possible, including not 
> being able to 
> >> use IETF meeting A/V equipment.
> > 
> > As I explained, that would be a mistake.
> > 
> > Gruesse, Carsten
> > 
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