Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: ip traceback)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 77attendees-bounces@ietf.org 
> [mailto:77attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:39 AM
> To: 77attendees@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: 
> ip traceback)
> 
> Hi
> 
> Three of the Bar-bofs I attended sofar are "transport 
> negotiation" (IETF-75?) , re-ECN (IETF-75)  and Clouds 
> (IETF-77) , non of them occured in a bar although "transport 
> negotiation" occured at lunch restaurant.
> 
> "transport negotiation" and was quite informal and resembled 
> my personal bar-BoF definition the most.
> 
> re-ECN was in a ordinary meeting room but was reasonably 
> messy to be called a bar-BoF. 
> 
> The Clouds bar-BoF was like an ordinary BoF (with a mike and 
> projector!), it was very well attended (~60 people) but I 
> would dare say that only ~5 people said anything. I left 
> after 20min as the whole subject was way above my head and I 
> should probably not have attended it at all.
> 
> I guess Cloubs was much like a real BoF but it lacked an 
> intro, which means that likely only the experts (everybody 
> except me?) knew the necessary details, to me it was only a 
> waste of time.
> 
> re-ECN was probably the most succesful bar-BoF as it has 
> already resulted in 3 BoF sessions :-)
> 
> "transport negotiation" did not end up in anything, here I 
> believe that there was not enough momentum behind.

There is stronger interest in HTTP-over-SCTP now than IETF75.  
>From that Bar BoF we wrote
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-yourtchenko-tran-announce-dns-00 
and a -01 should be available soon.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wing-http-new-tech-00 is
what happens if we don't have transport negotiation (try 
IPv4, try IPv6, try SCTP, try SCTP-over-UDP, try TCP -- 
all at once).

-d

> Conclusions. Don't have any...
> 
> /Ingemar
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 77attendees-bounces@ietf.org 
> > [mailto:77attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joerg Ott
> > Sent: den 29 mars 2010 20:52
> > To: Carsten Bormann
> > Cc: 77attendees@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [77attendees] Ad hoc meetings (Was: Re: Bar BoF: 
> > ip traceback)
> > 
> > Maybe this was said before: the IETF seems to be 
> > over-organizing things.  Bar BOFs used to deliberately be 
> > informal gatherings.
> > Maybe there is a need for more formal ones; maybe they are 
> > something else.
> > 
> > But the IETF should not start formalizing informal methods.  
> > What next?  Do we do pre-Bar-BOFs as informal gatherings?  
> > Will we then at some point come up with agendas and room 
> > allocations for pre-Bar-BOFs as well?
> > 
> > One thing not to forget is the perception from the outside 
> > how long standardization in the IETF takes.  We should avoid 
> > causing statements like "Well, you need to do informal 
> > opinion building, then 2-3 bar bofs, then you get to do 2 
> > BOFs, and then -- after 2 year, you may end up with a working 
> > group..."
> > 
> > I see us overdoing it here.
> > 
> > Joerg
> > 
> > 
> > Carsten Bormann wrote:
> > > On Mar 29, 2010, at 19:54, Melinda Shore wrote:
> > > 
> > >> I'd like to see informal
> > >> gatherings stay as informal as possible, including not 
> > being able to 
> > >> use IETF meeting A/V equipment.
> > > 
> > > As I explained, that would be a mistake.
> > > 
> > > Gruesse, Carsten
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/77attendees
> > > 
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