Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 16:56 UTC
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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Artyom Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>, "103attendees@ietf.org" <103attendees@ietf.org>
CC: 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:56:43 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/102attendees/_l8XUIGUUqrKo16-lwY4IrqRzsg>
Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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I had a similar experience for Buenos Aires (although one person at one Argentinian consulate finally did verbally say that a conference isn't considered "business"). Nobody at the embassy is really motivated to try and find a way to confirm that a visa isn't required so they'll just say to get one to avoid any risk. Maybe one is actually needed but personally I doubt it. Everyone has their own circumstances, but it is really a shame that we (IETF as an organization) can't get a definitive statement from the Thai authorities (i.e. in writing that we can all print & bring) that attending this conference is not considered as "business" by Thailand. That would save a lot of grief (and same was true for Buenos Aires and will be true for many future IETFs). Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: 102attendees <102attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Reshad > Rahman (rrahman) > Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:45 PM > To: Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Artyom > Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>; 103attendees@ietf.org > Cc: 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter > > I was planning on doing the same (tourist visa waiver) but then a Canadian > colleague sent this response from Thai embassy in Canada (FYI). > > =================================================== > > Sent: September 6, 2018 10:15 AM > Subject: visas > > for those who travel to Thailand for business purposes, attend conferences > you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa and send the following to the > Embassy: > > - original passport (no copies) > - one visa application filled out completely and singed > > - one photo Canadian passport size and stamped in the back from the store > purchased from > > - either an official letter from your office addressed to the Embassy or > invitation letter from Thailand stating that you will attend a meeting > conference. the letter must mention your name and nationality > > - visa fee $100.- in Canadian funds, money order only payable to the "Royal > Thai Embassy" > > - a prepaid express post envelop must be included for the return of your > passport. > > On 2018-09-07, 5:18 AM, "102attendees on behalf of Robert Wilton" > <102attendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of > rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hi Artyom, > > I presume that Andrew's email is probably this one: > > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/v_vECz7MtHUiMfu7INCh9VmJSKc > > Or, otherwise this query makes it fairly easy to see other likely > candidate emails: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/?q=Andrew# > > Personally I'm not inclined to apply for work visa, it seems a bit > arduous, so the choice I'm trying to decide between is do I travel on > the tourist visa-waver, or do I skip this meeting. > > FWIW, my current conclusion of this thread (traveling from the UK) is > that a tourist visa/visa-waver is sufficient, but I would need to be > careful about what I say when entering, along the lines of what Mehmet > suggested previously, i.e. attending a technical conference, etc. > > I've never been to Thailand before, so may also tack a couple of extra > days of tourism on the end anyway. > > Regards, > Rob > > > On 06/09/2018 18:58, Artyom Gavrichenkov wrote: > > I have decided it's a good idea to be more explicit regarding this > > piece. Answers inline, > > > >> See the earlier comments by Andrew Sullivan > > ...which no one to date has bothered to give a hyperlink to (though > > Mr. Eckert and me have both kindly asked for that quite a few times). > > > > The best direction on where to look for those comments was: "Andrew > > Sullivan's explanation on the IETF list". Nah. Never knew there's only > > one mailing list in the IETF. > > > >> and John Klensin. > >> Everybody has to make their own decisions about this and get definitive > advice specific to their individual circumstances from the relevant > embassy/consulate. It’s that simple. > > Sorry, but it is *not* that simple. > > > > Though I'm somewhat younger and definitely less experienced than you, > > I've lived most of my life under a citizenship which pretty much > > doesn't get you a visa waiver in most of the countries out there, and > > I have a different view over this one. > > > > With all due respect to all the countries in the world, for *most* of > > them, it is *not* possible to get a definitive advice from a consulate > > or embassy. Sometimes the [visa] regulations are vague and unclear. > > Sometimes, on the other hand, they are overly strict and the consulate > > is afraid of assigning too much of permissions to you. Sometimes, the > > consulate doesn't know much about those regulations at all and is just > > acting according to their own common sense. > > > > Each time you face it, it's one-on-one. The other side might be too > > strict or too permissive. The more information you have, the more > > definitive facts you're able to bring into play — the more chances you > > have to ask the right questions and convince the other side to settle > > on a decision which is best to you. > > > >>> Is it an overly optimistic idea to bring someone from the host to the > thread and ask them for advice? > >> Yes. It’s utterly impractical to expect anyone to provide advice on visa > issues which will or won’t apply to everyone going to an IETF meeting. > > Repeating once again: "I'm perfectly aware there are complicated > > scenarios out there which the host may not know how to handle, but the > > case of a EU citizen coming to the proposed international event looks > > rather straightforward and typical for me." > > > > See? I wasn't speaking about "everyone" from the very beginning. > > > > | Töma Gavrichenkov > > | gpg: 2deb 97b1 0a3c 151d b67f 1ee5 00e7 94bc 4d08 9191 > > | mailto: ximaera@gmail.com > > | fb: ximaera > > | telegram: xima_era > > | skype: xima_era > > | tel. no: +7 916 515 49 58 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > 102attendees mailing list > > 102attendees@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/102attendees > > _______________________________________________ > 102attendees mailing list > 102attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/102attendees > > > _______________________________________________ > 102attendees mailing list > 102attendees@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/102attendees
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- [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different i… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Ori Finkelman
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Mehmet Ersue
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Niel Harper
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Ben Campbell
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Niel Harper
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… John C Klensin
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Philip Prindeville
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Fred Baker
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Mike Bishop
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Michael StJohns
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Michael StJohns
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… George Michaelson
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jiankang Yao
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jeff Haas
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Roni Even
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Balazs Lengyel
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Roni Even
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Vittorio Bertola
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… John C Klensin
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Cj Aronson
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Jim Reid
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Michael StJohns
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Ilpo Järvinen
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Artyom Gavrichenkov
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Tobias Fiebig
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Robert Wilton
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Christian Hopps
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Lawrence M
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Heinrich Singh
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Lawrence M
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Reshad Rahman (rrahman)
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Christian Hopps
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Marc Blanchet
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… John C Klensin
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Philip Prindeville
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Bob Hinden
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jiankang Yao
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Ludwig Seitz
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Dean Bogdanovic
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a differe… Wang Guilin
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Ted Lemon
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Ted Lemon
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Robert Wilton
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Jared Mauch
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Eric Gray
- Re: [102attendees] [103attendees] Visa problems -… Ayala, Alejandro (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)