Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter

"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> Tue, 11 September 2018 16:56 UTC

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From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com>
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Artyom Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>, "103attendees@ietf.org" <103attendees@ietf.org>
CC: 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 16:56:43 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/102attendees/_l8XUIGUUqrKo16-lwY4IrqRzsg>
Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
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I had a similar experience for Buenos Aires (although one person at one Argentinian consulate finally did verbally say that a conference isn't considered "business"). Nobody at the embassy is really motivated to try and find a way to confirm that a visa isn't required so they'll just say to get one to avoid any risk.  Maybe one is actually needed but personally I doubt it.

Everyone has their own circumstances, but it is really a shame that we (IETF as an organization) can't get a definitive statement from the Thai authorities (i.e. in writing that we can all print & bring) that attending this conference is not considered as "business" by Thailand.  That would save a lot of grief (and same was true for Buenos Aires and will be true for many future IETFs).

Jason

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 102attendees <102attendees-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Reshad
> Rahman (rrahman)
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 12:45 PM
> To: Robert Wilton <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Artyom
> Gavrichenkov <ximaera@gmail.com>; 103attendees@ietf.org
> Cc: 102attendees <102attendees@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [102attendees] Visa problems - need a different invitation letter
> 
> I was planning on doing the same (tourist visa waiver)  but then a Canadian
> colleague sent this response from Thai embassy in Canada (FYI).
> 
> ===================================================
> 
> Sent: September 6, 2018 10:15 AM
> Subject: visas
> 
> for those who travel to Thailand for business purposes, attend conferences
> you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa and send the following to the
> Embassy:
> 
> - original passport (no copies)
> - one visa application filled out completely and singed
> 
> - one photo Canadian passport size and stamped in the back from the store
> purchased from
> 
> - either an official letter from your office addressed to the Embassy or
> invitation letter from Thailand stating that you will attend a meeting
> conference. the letter must mention your name and nationality
> 
> - visa fee $100.- in Canadian funds, money order only payable to the "Royal
> Thai Embassy"
> 
> - a prepaid express post envelop must be included for the return of your
> passport.
> 
> On 2018-09-07, 5:18 AM, "102attendees on behalf of Robert Wilton"
> <102attendees-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of
> rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Artyom,
> 
>     I presume that Andrew's email is probably this one:
> 
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/v_vECz7MtHUiMfu7INCh9VmJSKc
> 
>     Or, otherwise this query makes it fairly easy to see other likely
>     candidate emails:
>     https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/?q=Andrew#
> 
>     Personally I'm not inclined to apply for work visa, it seems a bit
>     arduous, so the choice I'm trying to decide between is do I travel on
>     the tourist visa-waver, or do I skip this meeting.
> 
>     FWIW, my current conclusion of this thread (traveling from the UK) is
>     that a tourist visa/visa-waver is sufficient, but I would need to be
>     careful about what I say when entering, along the lines of what Mehmet
>     suggested previously, i.e. attending a technical conference, etc.
> 
>     I've never been to Thailand before, so may also tack a couple of extra
>     days of tourism on the end anyway.
> 
>     Regards,
>     Rob
> 
> 
>     On 06/09/2018 18:58, Artyom Gavrichenkov wrote:
>     > I have decided it's a good idea to be more explicit regarding this
>     > piece. Answers inline,
>     >
>     >> See the earlier comments by Andrew Sullivan
>     > ...which no one to date has bothered to give a hyperlink to (though
>     > Mr. Eckert and me have both kindly asked for that quite a few times).
>     >
>     > The best direction on where to look for those comments was: "Andrew
>     > Sullivan's explanation on the IETF list". Nah. Never knew there's only
>     > one mailing list in the IETF.
>     >
>     >> and John Klensin.
>     >> Everybody has to make their own decisions about this and get definitive
> advice specific to their individual circumstances from the relevant
> embassy/consulate. It’s that simple.
>     > Sorry, but it is *not* that simple.
>     >
>     > Though I'm somewhat younger and definitely less experienced than you,
>     > I've lived most of my life under a citizenship which pretty much
>     > doesn't get you a visa waiver in most of the countries out there, and
>     > I have a different view over this one.
>     >
>     > With all due respect to all the countries in the world, for *most* of
>     > them, it is *not* possible to get a definitive advice from a consulate
>     > or embassy. Sometimes the [visa] regulations are vague and unclear.
>     > Sometimes, on the other hand, they are overly strict and the consulate
>     > is afraid of assigning too much of permissions to you. Sometimes, the
>     > consulate doesn't know much about those regulations at all and is just
>     > acting according to their own common sense.
>     >
>     > Each time you face it, it's one-on-one. The other side might be too
>     > strict or too permissive. The more information you have, the more
>     > definitive facts you're able to bring into play — the more chances you
>     > have to ask the right questions and convince the other side to settle
>     > on a decision which is best to you.
>     >
>     >>> Is it an overly optimistic idea to bring someone from the host to the
> thread and ask them for advice?
>     >> Yes. It’s utterly impractical to expect anyone to provide advice on visa
> issues which will or won’t apply to everyone going to an IETF meeting.
>     > Repeating once again: "I'm perfectly aware there are complicated
>     > scenarios out there which the host may not know how to handle, but the
>     > case of a EU citizen coming to the proposed international event looks
>     > rather straightforward and typical for me."
>     >
>     > See? I wasn't speaking about "everyone" from the very beginning.
>     >
>     > | Töma Gavrichenkov
>     > | gpg: 2deb 97b1 0a3c 151d b67f 1ee5 00e7 94bc 4d08 9191
>     > | mailto: ximaera@gmail.com
>     > | fb: ximaera
>     > | telegram: xima_era
>     > | skype: xima_era
>     > | tel. no: +7 916 515 49 58
>     >
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