Re: [Add] Trust and control on the Internet (was Re: fixing coffee shop brokenness with DoH)

[Ted Lemon <[e-mail]>]

On Jul 24, 2019, at 10:56 AM, Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola=[e-mail]> wrote:
> Trust in the Internet infrastructure is a hard problem because the trust relationships are different depending on subjective judgements and preferences. 

Vittorio, I think it’s important to make a distinction between “who you might choose to trust” and “who you are forced to trust.”

In order to run an app, if the app is able to make https connections, you are forced to trust the app.   This is true whether you are aware that you are trusting it or not, and regardless of your attitude toward your service provider.

This is what I am getting at.   This is completely orthogonal to the question of “whose resolver would I choose to trust?”

What DoH does, but what any app can do whether DoH is present or not, is to make it possible to trust someone other than your service provider.  Without some covert channel that the service provider can’t block, the user does not have this choice.

But really, the user doesn’t have this choice anyway.   It’s the app that has this choice.   The user may hope that the app does what the user wants, but the user probably can’t validate that leap of faith.

We in the IETF do not have the ability to prevent the app from bypassing the ISP’s resolver.   It’s totally pointless to talk about whether or not we should do this.