RE: Terminology discussion threads
Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> Sun, 16 August 2020 00:55 UTC
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Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@gmail.com>
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
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To: 'Dan Harkins' <dharkins@lounge.org>, ietf@ietf.org
Cc: 'Eric Rescorla' <ekr@rtfm.com>, 'Paul Wouters' <paul@nohats.ca>
References: <6AA0BCBB-D95B-4036-B94D-5E79E7B94D75@ietf.org> <F15E387D-9FDC-4A76-8002-78B85F6D16BE@nohats.ca> <CABcZeBNitWbdPO4Y2WfCzjy10Z+s27px6cGT1uRHmtGHa5iX+Q@mail.gmail.com> <ed227fd5-3277-d7a9-f93d-b259944009d6@huitema.net> <7ec6f897-fd3e-8a22-cf6e-ea457d745982@lounge.org>
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Subject: RE: Terminology discussion threads
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 17:54:57 -0700
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The IETF designs its processes in the various BCPs using the skills of protocol designers in these network-intermediated human-to-human protocols. Meetings, virtual-meetings, emails, chat rooms, mailing lists, internet-drafts, RFCs, are all human-to-human protocols, along with nomcom and SaS. As with most Internet protocols, we need to change how we work in response to changing conditions. As with most Internet protocols, we have to balance the requirements of the different types of participants, and that results in some balance and sometimes friction depending on "whose ox is being gored". As with most Internet protocols, it is in some cases necessary to protect the systems from disruption, either by intention, or unintentional side effects of our protocol implementations. In general, human recipients of communications (such as emails or internet drafts or published RFCs) have, as part of their input function, varying degrees of reaction "finding the language offensive", which interferes with their ability to receive the technical content of the communication. Those who communicate with many recipients (especially through long-term archived communications such as internet-drafts and RFCs) should choose language that conveys the technical content without the "offended" reaction. The same robustness rules apply on widely subscribed mailing lists. Five years ago about, I left the appsarea mailing list, because I was offended, and unable to convince anyone to act further than to admonish the poster and, incredibly, me. What heinous phrase had he used that I found so offensive? That I "sounded like a bulldog farting out a nest of angry wasps". It really drove me crazy. "Why not a chihuahua? Or a Saint Bernard? "Why wasps and not bumblebees?" So I unsubscribed. My point in telling this story is that there is no clear, identifiable boundary between language that would cause participants to leave the group or choose not to engage, and language that is not. It doesn't mean there is no difference. The IETF is a global, apolitical technical decision-making body. Attacks on such bodies are widespread. Trolls and sock-puppets are well-known vectors for disruption, and getting us to focus on nonsense (perhaps this message? I hope not). In the meanwhile, try not to offend anyone, or to be easily offended. -- https://LarryMasinter.net https://interlisp.org
- Terminology discussion threads IETF Chair
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Lars Eggert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Richard Barnes
- Re: Terminology discussion threads David Schinazi
- RE: Terminology discussion threads STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Eric Rescorla
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Melinda Shore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Ted Hardie
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Lloyd Wood
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Sergeant-at-Arms
- Re: Terminology discussion threads (CORRECTION) Sergeant-at-Arms
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Dan Harkins
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Masataka Ohta
- Re: Terminology discussion threads IETF Sergeant at Arms
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Martin Duke
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Dan Harkins
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Wendy Seltzer
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: Terminology discussion threads IETF Sergeant at Arms
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Ofer Inbar
- RE: Terminology discussion threads STARK, BARBARA H
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Michael StJohns
- Re: Terminology discussion threads IETF Sergeant-at-Arms
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Randy Bush
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Richard Barnes
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Melinda Shore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Eric Heflin
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Charlie Perkins
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Kyle Rose
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Toerless Eckert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Bob Hinden
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nick Hilliard
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Leif Johansson
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Toerless Eckert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads David Schinazi
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Keith Moore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Michael StJohns
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Pete Resnick
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Richard Barnes
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Toerless Eckert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Leif Johansson
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Toerless Eckert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Michael StJohns
- Re: Terminology discussion threads S Moonesamy
- SaA Team actions (was: Re: Terminology discussion… John C Klensin
- Re: Terminology discussion threads IETF Chair
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Alissa Cooper
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Richard Barnes
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Paul Wouters
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Martin Thomson
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Melinda Shore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Carsten Bormann
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Rob Sayre
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Bron Gondwana
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Paul Hoffman
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Paul Hoffman
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Eric Rescorla
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Christian Huitema
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nadim Kobeissi
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Dan Harkins
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Nico Williams
- Self-moderation Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Self-moderation Mary B
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Mary B
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Keith Moore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads (off-topic) S Moonesamy
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Jen Linkova
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Jared Mauch
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Dan Harkins
- Re: Terminology discussion threads tom petch
- Re: Terminology discussion threads (off-topic) Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Terminology discussion threads (off-topic) S Moonesamy
- RE: Terminology discussion threads Larry Masinter
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Carsten Bormann
- Weekly message summaries John Levine
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Fernando Gont
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Warren Kumari
- On plenary functions Eliot Lear
- Re: On plenary functions Carsten Bormann
- Re: Self-moderation Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Self-moderation Warren Kumari
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Miles Fidelman
- Re: Self-moderation John C Klensin
- Re: On plenary functions Jay Daley
- Re: On plenary functions Keith Moore
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Keith Moore
- Re: On plenary functions Carsten Bormann
- Re: Self-moderation Stewart Bryant
- Re: Self-moderation Carsten Bormann
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: Self-moderation John Levine
- Re: On plenary functions Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Self-moderation Warren Kumari
- Re: Self-moderation John C Klensin
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Patrik Fältström
- Re: On plenary functions Eliot Lear
- Re: Terminology discussion threads tom petch
- Re: Terminology discussion threads S Moonesamy
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Jay Daley
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Mary B
- Re: Terminology discussion threads Toerless Eckert
- Re: Terminology discussion threads S Moonesamy
- Re: Weekly message summaries Töma Gavrichenkov