Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)"
Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Sun, 17 May 2020 06:26 UTC
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From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>
To: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes@cisco.com>
CC: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)"
Thread-Topic: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)"
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Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 06:26:21 +0000
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Hi Darren, Nah – wasn’t confused after all – you confirmed what I thought. Last I checked – CRH was a routing header – and as stated many times – is a building block – upon which other things can be built. As was stated in the interim meeting by Sander – things that utilize it may require architecture documents. That doesn’t mean those individual architectures for the various things you can do with this will sit in 6man. Last I checked – we never stated in any way shape or form that as people use the CRH for its various applications – that any further work done would have to sit in 6man. We did say – that this si a building block – and a routing header – and hence, belongs very much in 6man. Let me try and use some analogies to paint you a picture you may understand – sometimes is easier that way. In about 7000 BC someone invented this thing called the Brick. About 9000 years later – someone came up with the architectural plans for the building at 170 West Tasman Drive. In between – architectural plans use cases for this wondering thing called the Brick – were drawn up for some pretty spectacular things - you know, like, the Acropolis, the Taj Mahal, the Empire State building, the Palace of Versailles – the list goes on. I’m sure someone even wrote some use cases documents as to why they wanted those buildings, and I’d hope there was a business case behind building 170 West Tasman Drive, but – long before any of that – there was the simple, easy to use, brick – the building block. I hope this makes sense to you – I realize that some of these concepts can sometimes be a little confusing and daunting when someone is used to dealing with things that have a single purpose designed by one group of people and have been taught that that group of people are the only ones that are capable of drawing up use cases and having ideas. It’s similar to what I see in so many areas – where people are told to constrain their ideas to that which created by others, rather than taking the building blocks and closing their eyes and letting their imagination guide them. See – there is a strong case for creating building blocks – so that people can well – build on them – with the freedom to do so as the innovative ideas come. And that – is what this is – a building block – rather than a dictation of what the innovation of tomorrow should look like. Thanks Andrew From: "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes@cisco.com> Date: Sunday, 17 May 2020 at 06:26 To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org> Subject: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)" Hi Andrew. You say... That 6man – does refer to this working group right? Or am I confused. I think you are confused, but that’s OK, it’s easy to explain. SPRING defined segment routing, the terminology, usecases, problem statement, and protocol extensions. 6man defined the routing header. See section 1 of https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-00<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-00> where this context was given when 6man adopted the document. RPL appears similar, see section 1. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rpl-option-00<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-rpl-option-00> I hope this helps. Darren ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 10:44 AM To: Darren Dukes (ddukes); Bob Hinden; IPv6 List Subject: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)" Darren… Can you please explain the double standard here – where the additional development on segment routing was done in other working groups (IDR/LSR/SPRING etc) – but – last I checked – https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-6man-segment-routing-header-26> That 6man – does refer to this working group right? Or am I confused. Now – let me be very clear before someone claims we’re trying to replace the SRH – which is not the case – I am merely contrasting your arguments to another case where a routing header was developed – and the rest of the work – was done elsewhere as needed, and which you had nom issue with. So – to be frank – from my perspective and speaking only for myself – I see this as yet another red herring popped out of thin air. Thanks Andrew From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of "Darren Dukes (ddukes)" <ddukes=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:ddukes=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> Date: Saturday, 16 May 2020 at 17:00 To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com<mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com<mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)" Hi Bob and Ole. I’m not supporting the draft for adoption by 6man. I know you’re shocked ;). I have one main concern with 6man adoption that I think many can agree with. This draft will require substantial work related to the 16/32bit identifier (CP and OAM) that is not ipv6 nor ipv6 maintenance and for which this working group does not have a mandate nor, traditionally, expertise to drive. Others have said “this is not 6man’s concern” and I agree because 6man is an ipv6 maintenance WG, not the segment mapping working group. I believe the authors should find a WG with that concern to drive this work. I know starting work without requirements is fun and exciting, but you will likely end up at the wrong destination. Brian had one suggestion on this topic. In the past I’ve suggested SPRING, or if the authors desire, a BOF to build consensus and gather requirements for its parent SRm6 work or some variant of it. I hope the authors, WG, chairs and AD consider these points during this adoption call. Thanks Darren ________________________________ From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com<mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 6:14 PM To: IPv6 List Cc: Bob Hinden Subject: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH)" This message starts a two-week 6MAN call on adopting: Title: The IPv6 Compact Routing Header (CRH) Authors: R. Bonica, Y. Kamite, T. Niwa, A. Alston, L. Jalil File Name: draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr-21 Document date: 2020-05-14 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr> as a working group item. Substantive comments regarding adopting this document should be directed to the mailing list. Editorial suggestions can be sent to the authors. Please note that this is an adoption call, it is not a w.g. last call for advancement, adoption means that it will become a w.g. draft. As the working group document, the w.g. will decide how the document should change going forward. This adoption call will end on 29 May 2020. The chairs note there has been a lot of discussions on the list about this draft. After discussing with our area directors, we think it is appropriate to start a working group adoption call. The authors have been active in resolving issues raised on the list. Could those who are willing to work on this document, either as contributors, authors or reviewers please notify the list. That gives us an indication of the energy level in the working group to work on this. Regards, Bob and Ole
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xing Li
- Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing Heade… Bob Hinden
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mark Smith
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Andrew Alston
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Joel M. Halpern
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xing Li
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mark Smith
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Krzysztof Szarkowicz
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Melchior Aelmans
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Nick Hilliard
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Andrew Alston
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tony Przygienda
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Vishal Singh
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… John Scudder
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Gyan Mishra
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mark Smith
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Michael Richardson
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Andrew Alston
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Wen Lin
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- FW: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Naveen Kottapalli
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… John Scudder
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Andrew Alston
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… John Scudder
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Parag Kaneriya
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Reply: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Ro… Chengli (Cheng Li)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… John Scudder
- RE: Reply: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compac… Ron Bonica
- 答复: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Weiqiang Cheng
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Huzhibo
- G-SRv6 (was Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compa… Tom Herbert
- RE: G-SRv6 (was Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 C… Huzhibo
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… 刘毅松
- 回复: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routi… duzongpeng@foxmail.com
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Srihari Sangli
- 回复: 回复: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routi… Peng Liu
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… stefano previdi
- Re: G-SRv6 (was Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 C… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ahmed Abdelsalam
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… stefano previdi
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Gyan Mishra
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mach Chen
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Gyan Mishra
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mach Chen
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Gyan Mishra
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Mach Chen
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… xiechf@chinatelecom.cn
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Reji Thomas
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Antonio Cianfrani
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Rabadan, Jorge (Nokia - US/Mountain View)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Xiejingrong (Jingrong)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Srihari Sangli
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ron Bonica
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Darren Dukes (ddukes)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Martin Horneffer
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tetsuya Murakami
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Kalyani Rajaraman
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Michael McBride
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ran Pang(联通集团联通网络技术研究 院本部)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Miya Kohno
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Kentaro Ebisawa
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… licong@chinatelecom.cn
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Fernando Gont
- 答复: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… qinfengwei
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Satoru Matsushima
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Voyer, Daniel
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Miya Kohno
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Kamran Raza (skraza)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Fernando Gont
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Jakob Heitz (jheitz)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
- Re: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routi… 이기훈/책임
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Swadesh Agrawal (swaagraw)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Gyan Mishra
- RE: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routi… Chengli (Cheng Li)
- RE: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Chengli (Cheng Li)
- Re: Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routi… Rakesh Gandhi
- Re: [spring] FW: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Comp… Dirk Steinberg
- comments on draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr (Re: A… 神明達哉
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Francois Clad (fclad)
- Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: Adopt… Tom Herbert
- Conclusion of the Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Com… Bob Hinden
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Zafar Ali (zali)
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Greg Mirsky
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Tom Herbert
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Richard Vallee (rvallee)
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Kris Michielsen
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Tom Herbert
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Robert Raszuk
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Tom Herbert
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… John Scudder
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Nick Hilliard
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Adrian Farrel
- RE: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… James Guichard
- Re: Compatibility with SRH requirement (was Re: A… Tom Herbert
- Re: Adoption Call for "The IPv6 Compact Routing H… Jen Linkova
- Re: Conclusion of the Adoption Call for "The IPv6… Erik Kline
- Followup Conclusion of the Adoption Call for "The… Bob Hinden