Re: [ietf-dkim] A more fundamental SSP axiom

John L <johnl@iecc.com> Thu, 03 August 2006 02:52 UTC

Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8TKC-0002rF-7r for ietf-dkim-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:52:40 -0400
Received: from sb7.songbird.com ([208.184.79.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G8TKA-0007if-R6 for ietf-dkim-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:52:40 -0400
Received: from sb7.songbird.com (sb7.songbird.com [127.0.0.1]) by sb7.songbird.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k732pewr023600; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:51:41 -0700
Received: from xuxa.iecc.com (xuxa.iecc.com [208.31.42.42]) by sb7.songbird.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with SMTP id k732pUXJ023579 for <ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>; Wed, 2 Aug 2006 19:51:31 -0700
Received: (qmail 21158 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2006 02:51:04 -0000
Received: from simone.iecc.com (208.31.42.47) by mail2.iecc.com with QMQP; 3 Aug 2006 02:51:04 -0000
Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 3 Aug 2006 02:51:04 -0000
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:51:04 -0400
From: John L <johnl@iecc.com>
To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] A more fundamental SSP axiom
In-Reply-To: <44D160BD.7080209@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <20060802223619.E86316@simone.iecc.com>
References: <20060802002353.U59653@simone.iecc.com> <44D0E259.7040400@mtcc.com> <20060802165510.X1168@simone.iecc.com> <44D160BD.7080209@mtcc.com>
Cleverness: None detected
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
X-Songbird: Clean, Clean
Cc: DKIM List <ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DKIM Discussion List <ietf-dkim.mipassoc.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/ietf-dkim>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
Errors-To: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
X-SongbirdInformation: support@songbird.com for more information
X-Songbird-From: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5

> Please don't shoot the messanger: I'm just asking.

I hadn't intended to shoot, sorry if it came across that way.  You're 
right, people find all sorts of other uses for successful protocols, but 
those uses tend to be "pull", repurpose info already used for something 
else rather than "push", stick in the data and see if anyone cares.  The 
way we're trying to define SSP is really risky since we have, as far as I 
can tell, no operational experience at all with anything SSP-like so we're 
just guessing about what will be useful.

It seems to me that so far we have two, maybe three, items that a sender 
could publish that would plausibly be useful to a recipient trying to 
decide what to do with an incoming message that isn't self-signed.

"I send no mail" is about the strongest possible hint that the message is 
forged, and the recipient doesn't want it.

"I sign all mail" is the next strongest hint, saying to me that the sender 
believes it has its outgoing mail firmly enough under control that an 
unsigned message is more likely to be a phish than a damaged real message.

The third is "<foo> signs all my mail", if it turns out that there 
actually exist foo's that reliable enough to delegate's one's signing, and 
that it's easier to do that than to sign in the MUA or to provide signing 
keys so that foo can put on the sender's signature.

So my suggestion would be to use a format similar to the one we use for 
the signatures, put the first two items in the spec, and use a syntax that 
permits people to experiment with new items and propose the useful ones 
for later standardization.

R's,
John
_______________________________________________
NOTE WELL: This list operates according to 
http://mipassoc.org/dkim/ietf-list-rules.html