Re: [ietf-dkim] A more fundamental SSP axiom

John L <johnl@iecc.com> Fri, 04 August 2006 22:16 UTC

Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G97yQ-0007DW-VK for ietf-dkim-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:16:54 -0400
Received: from sb7.songbird.com ([208.184.79.137]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1G97yP-0007so-Hu for ietf-dkim-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:16:54 -0400
Received: from sb7.songbird.com (sb7.songbird.com [127.0.0.1]) by sb7.songbird.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k74MF84R029437; Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:15:08 -0700
Received: from xuxa.iecc.com (xuxa.iecc.com [208.31.42.42]) by sb7.songbird.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with SMTP id k74MEvir029393 for <ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>; Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:14:58 -0700
Received: (qmail 4051 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2006 22:07:50 -0000
Received: from simone.iecc.com (208.31.42.47) by mail2.iecc.com with QMQP; 4 Aug 2006 22:07:50 -0000
Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 4 Aug 2006 22:07:50 -0000
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 18:07:50 -0400
From: John L <johnl@iecc.com>
To: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Subject: Re: [ietf-dkim] A more fundamental SSP axiom
In-Reply-To: <44D3C0BB.9000405@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <20060804174955.N15734@simone.iecc.com>
References: <20060804173538.54245.qmail@simone.iecc.com> <44D3C0BB.9000405@mtcc.com>
Cleverness: None detected
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
X-Songbird: Clean, Clean
Cc: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org
X-BeenThere: ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DKIM Discussion List <ietf-dkim.mipassoc.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mipassoc.org/pipermail/ietf-dkim>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-dkim@mipassoc.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mipassoc.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-dkim>, <mailto:ietf-dkim-request@mipassoc.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
Errors-To: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
X-SongbirdInformation: support@songbird.com for more information
X-Songbird-From: ietf-dkim-bounces@mipassoc.org
X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1

> In other words, you really have no clue as to how these people use email
> and what the collateral damage would be. The average small firm/company
> doesn't even understand the difference between a mailing list, a blog
> or a discussion board. And you expect them to be able to make an informed
> decision?

I have a pretty good idea how lawyers use e-mail, since I do a fair amount 
of expert witness work and do all of the routine stuff (i.e., not of 
interest to opposing lawyers) by e-mail.  Lawyers exchange some of the 
highest value e-mail of anyone, case management messages with courts and 
other law firms.  If one of those messages gets lost, it can mean that the 
lawyer loses a case by default.  This is not a hypothetical concern; see 
my blog entry at http://weblog.johnlevine.com/Email/barge.html

So if "sign everything" SSP makes their point to point mail more reliable, 
law firms will use it in a millisecond.  If it means that some other 
people won't see some messages they send to mailing lists, they won't 
care.  If, as I suspect will be more likely, their correspondents will 
ignore SSP and whitelist mail from organizations they know, they won't 
bother.  If a law firm elects to accept e-mailed notices from a court, 
there's a multi-step process to ensure that the mail works, and it'd be an 
obvious place to add people a local whitelist.  But it's a decision they 
can reasonably make for good business reasons.


>> Speaking as a receiver, I have to say I didn't find that info either
>> useful or interesting.
>> 
> I wasn't aware that you wrote spam filters for a living.

I wasn't aware that "receiver" was a synonym for "commercial spam filter 
vendor."  One learns something new every day.

R's,
John
_______________________________________________
NOTE WELL: This list operates according to 
http://mipassoc.org/dkim/ietf-list-rules.html