Re: Hotel situation

[Warren Kumari <[e-mail]>]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:16 PM Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 06:10:04PM +0000, Warren Kumari wrote:
> > Yup. I have been to a number of IEEE meetings and stayed in the IEEE
> hotel
> > in order to get the discount - the next 802 Plenary is at the Venetian in
> > Macau. The registration page (
> > http://802world.org/plenary/ieee-802-group-hotel/ ) says:
> > -------------------------------
> > Group Hotel Registration Policy
> > The combined hotel room stays of attendees are used to offset the cost of
> > the meeting. For this reason, anyone who is not a registered guest at the
> > Sands Venetian Macao Hotel for three (3) or more nights is not eligible
> for
> > the registration discount ($US 450.00).
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > The room rate starts at 1,550.00MOP (~$180USD). The discounted
> registration
> > fee is $600USD.
> > The non-discounted fee is $1050USD.
>
> 3000 rooms there. If every attendee could get a room at the $180 rate,
> then this wouldn't be such a bad deal. Seems like the opposite of the
> current
> IETF problem: Large hotel with too many rooms that need to be filled. And
> several other competing hotels in walking distance.
>
> WOuld be interesting to know if IETF ever ran into the problem
> of not filling up blocked rooms...
>
> > The IEEE seems to have many fewer requirements / expectations from their
> > attendees.
> > For example, one of the recent meetings was in the Estrel in Berlin, a
> > hotel which would not suit the IETF at all.
>
> Why not ? 1150 room would be perfect size. Probably because IETF wouldn't
> reserve enough of the conference space, so we wouldn't get a good deal
> with them ?
>

I'm not sure of all of the reasons, but:
1: there is basically nothing within walking distance. When I wanted to get
out of the hotel for food I managed to find a (bad) gyro / curry wurst
vendor. IETF people have repeatedly demanded many nice food places within
walking distance.
2: There do not seem to be nearly enough break out rooms. A number of the
IEEE meetings I attended were in guest rooms that they had taken the beds
out of.
3: The food options in the hotel were quite limited. I really enjoyed
the Schweinshaxe, but after the N days many people would probably get bored
of it...
3: As far as I remember, their network infrastructure was, um, sad.


> Perhaps if IETF attendees didn't demand everything that we do (lots of
> > breakout rooms, walking distance to bars and restaurants, no trains, the
> > ability to install and run our own network, not being in Minneapolis,
> large
> > cookies, specific price points, a willingness to keep going back to the
> > same N locations) we wouldn't have so much kvetching.
>
> +1 on almost everything. I think inexpensive helps diversity, and
> number of breakout rooms is just at the core of our work.
>
> And ++1 on Minneapolis in November again.
>

Yup. I too like the Minneapolis idea (as do a number of other people who
seem to be very active on the list / in the IETF), but it seem that we are
in the minority:
https://iaoc.ietf.org/documents/Venue-Preference-Survey-2014.pdf

 W

>
> Cheers
>     Toerless
> >
> > W
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Behcet
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -glenn
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 12/16/15, 3:24 PM, "Ray Pelletier" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Glenn,
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 12:54 PM, Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)
> > > >>><[e-mail]> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>    Q- What??s the room block size we are getting at the recent
> venues
> > > >>> compared to what we got at previous ones like Vancouver, or Berlin?
> > > >>
> > > >>There are many hotels in Buenos Aires but they do not have many
> rooms.
> > > >>
> > > >>When we announced on 10 December that registration would open on 16
> > > >>December
> > > >>we said:
> > > >>
> > > >>Registration and hotel reservations for IETF 95 in Buenos Aires will
> > > >>open at 1500 UTC Wednesday, December 16. Hotel reservations will
> include
> > > >>the headquarters hotel and the contracted overflow hotels available
> > > >>at that time.
> > > >>
> > > >>Because hotels in Buenos Aires have a limited number of guest rooms,
> > > >>the IETF has been negotiating contracts with ten hotels.  Hotels not
> > > >>available on December 16 will be announced when available.
> > > >>
> > > >>On 16 December we said:
> > > >>
> > > >>1. Hilton Buenos Aires (Headquarters Hotel, block of 300 rooms)
> > > >>2. Holiday Inn Express Puerto Madero (30 rooms)
> > > >>3. Sheraton Buenos Aires (140 rooms available)
> > > >>4. InterContinental Buenos Aires (150 rooms)
> > > >>5. Sheraton Libertador Hotel (70 rooms)
> > > >>
> > > >>Buenos Aires is not Vancouver, Berlin, London, Paris or San
> Francisco.
> > > >>It's more like Dublin, if you recently attended the ICANN conference
> > > >>there.
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>    Q - Are hotels artificially limiting availability of the IETF
> block
> > > >>>by
> > > >>> only releasing parts of it to the web booking?
> > > >>>        I??ve seen hotels do this for other events.  While the whole
> > > block
> > > >>> maybe 500 rooms, they release them in 50 room blocks as the
> > > >>>        reservation block fills.  This creates the lucky 10th caller
> > > >>> scenario, where if you hit it at just the right time you win.
> > > >>
> > > >>That's not the case here, or anywhere we have negotiated agreements.
> > > >>
> > > >>We strive to contract for 600 on a peak night at the so-called
> > > >>headquarter's hotel,
> > > >>but it depends on where we are. If we are in an area surrounded by
> > > >>hotels, and
> > > >>at lower price points, we might contract for 400 on a peak night, and
> > > >>overflow
> > > >>hotels for another 200 - 300 rooms on peak to get 780 rooms on peak.
> > > >>
> > > >>Typically if we don't get our target room block it's because there's
> > > >>another group
> > > >>at the hotel, or sometimes it's because the hotel is concerned about
> the
> > > >>risk
> > > >>of setting aside 70 - 90% for a group they've never done business
> with.
> > > >>This concern
> > > >>is also typically reflected in the cancellation provisions for guest
> > > >>rooms they will
> > > >>sign up to, and/or when they start cutting back the number of rooms
> in
> > > >>the block.
> > > >>All of which is evident in our first meeting in Latin America and
> Buenos
> > > >>Aires.
> > > >>
> > > >>For those who managed to make a reservation outside the IETF block,
> but
> > > >>at a
> > > >>higher price, we are trying to get you in the block at the IETF rate.
> > > >>
> > > >>Another 4 or so IETF contracted hotels are in the works and will be
> > > >>announced
> > > >>as soon as they are ready.
> > > >>
> > > >>Ray
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -glenn
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
> --
> ---
> Toerless Eckert, [e-mail]
>