Re: Registration details for IETF 108
Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org> Mon, 01 June 2020 18:06 UTC
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Subject: Re: Registration details for IETF 108
From: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>
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Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 19:06:39 +0100
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
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References: <159062833754.6110.5826748635235943562@ietfa.amsl.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20200531121457.0b249858@elandnews.com> <CABcZeBOzVHaSZa0A3eDz12RwNuCiHtiJL8wqvAhhLPN6YEQOkQ@mail.gmail.com> <afa11959-3348-4054-409c-803824a2f332@gmail.com> <D6AF5131729C554EA66DD64D@PSB>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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> On 1 Jun 2020, at 17:44, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > > Having read the survey results and having been suggesting for > many years that remote participants (note participants, not > observers/lurkers) should be charged at least a nominal fee, I > agree with all of those who have said that charging something is > reasonable. I have three concerns that are, in increasing > order of importance below. While not trivial, I hope that > neither of the first two become a distraction. ... > (3) While I note that almost every posting since Melinda's > comments excerpted below has concentrated on the fees, I think > she has identified the important issue. We continue to claim > that decisions are made --not just checked or last-called -- on > mailing lists, but that seems factually to have become less true > in recent years. Like her, I believe that the trend may be > irreversible at this point. However, unless there is some plan > to try to at least partially mitigate the effects of that > change, I think it is important that we recognize and make > adjustments for, not only the incoherency and inconsistencies > she points out, but the changes that dilute the "decisions on > mailing lists" principle. We should also recognize that > diluting that principle inevitably has negative effects on the > diversity of experience and expertise -- not just demographic > diversity although there might be effects there too-- that end > up being represented in IETF decision-making. One of the key results of the survey was that time zones are hard, and make scheduling calls to be inclusive very difficult. I’m not sure mailing lists are necessarily still the right technology, but I do hope that manycouches, and related discussions, will include a focus on effective asynchronous collaboration, and that we won’t fall by default into the mode of endless teleconferences at unsociable hours. Colin
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- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Melinda Shore
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Alissa Cooper
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- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
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- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Livingood, Jason
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bob Hinden
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Lixia Zhang
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Scott Kitterman
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael StJohns
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Scudder
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Vittorio Bertola
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Joseph Touch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Adrian Farrel
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Mehmet Ersue
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Eric Rescorla
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 John Levine
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Pete Resnick
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Stephen Farrell
- Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for IET… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Robert Raszuk
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Alissa Cooper
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Ted Hardie
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 S Moonesamy
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Fees after IETF 108 [Registration details for… tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Nick Hilliard
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 tom petch
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Robert Raszuk
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Bajpai, Vaibhav
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Daniel Karrenberg
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Colin Perkins
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Tim Chown
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Jay Daley
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 John C Klensin
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Randy Bush
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Ole Jacobsen
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- Re: Registration details for IETF 108 Michael Richardson
- RE: Registration details for IETF 108 Larry Masinter
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