Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IETF 108)

Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Thu, 18 June 2020 18:36 UTC

Return-Path: <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632693A0E18 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QETKpcM9sEB3 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A337C3A0E16 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:36:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC5E389D5; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id gm2TNbseRBWH; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7295F389CF; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:34:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80A9851E; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:36:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: standards? (was: Registration details for IETF 108)
In-Reply-To: <CAMm+Lwhqy9B8-mYUmp-OJa0jg0OZP0ij-B9Tn6B2209UAB4hrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159062833754.6110.5826748635235943562@ietfa.amsl.com> <9F71F116-D7B2-4ECE-9000-957A0C497404@ietf.org> <01d701d638ca$c096b5e0$41c421a0$@gmail.com> <CABcZeBOLAw_9s-gobFYB=5THu_Q70UmDLn_ZhVXhNRHN_nu_0w@mail.gmail.com> <607b7682-0a75-62b6-fd0e-5e2e1171a68b@cs.tcd.ie> <CA+9kkMBEqhn115ToB0SwOGavmXze4DdJdL941J4LeVMRrPngpQ@mail.gmail.com> <e1b804ae-4c2e-fdf3-8804-47820d35facf@cs.tcd.ie> <CA+9kkMC8ZWHaCBg=WzwtriVf-3bq=egupVgAH-J7dSqspwLoFw@mail.gmail.com> <a19c3066-bfa7-ded2-d98f-b5e367645451@cs.tcd.ie> <E8BE49F8-6FE8-4470-9314-21F8BFE9768A@gmail.com> <1UWAyqDxFn.1IOJoXgqe8i@pc8xp> <m2tuzpz0eg.wl-randy@psg.com> <94fdbedd-358b-7fae-c784-9550311d8aea@gmail.com> <m2h7voztz5.wl-randy@psg.com> <6F3828AD-FFE3-4331-8E76-E212F1357919@gmail.com> <m2ftb1reu1.wl-randy@psg.com> <2E2893AA-2BCC-4EA1-AF31-0B4BA437C46F@csperkins.org> <m2d065rcjt.wl-randy@psg.com> <496648EA-4D97-44CA-B45A-7AAC283A1025@ietf.org> <00b801d640f9$5afe7bf0$10fb73d0$@acm.org> <602817EB7E0004CD1FD5CCC5@PSB> <8281.1592083 246@localhost> <m2pna270kq.wl-randy@psg.com> <CAMm+Lwhqy9B8-mYUmp-OJa0jg0OZP0ij-B9Tn6B2209UAB4hrA@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1
X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m<nPbLgmtKK-5dC@#:k
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:36:37 -0400
Message-ID: <5219.1592505397@localhost>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/fQnG2hDL3MPg87Du-2MLCTA_Auw>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 18:36:42 -0000

Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> wrote:
    > There is another patent even more interesting that has now expired:
    > Micali's fair exchange with invisible trusted third party. This allows
    > Alice to send a message to Bob such that Bob can read it if and only if
    > Bob provides a receipt. The TTP is only involved in the case that Alice
    > defects and does not release the decryption key after Bob signs the
    > receipt.

    > Now replacing SMTP is obviously futile, a non starter. There is too
    > much water under that bridge. But deploying a new open transactional
    > messaging system that is designed for purpose of transactional email is
    > certainly not futile. In fact it is something we clearly need now that
    > the business processes exist that can leverage it.

I want to say two interpretations, and I'd like you to pick one or the other:

1) SMTP in unreplacebale, but (S)MIME format email can be replaced,
   being a different media type across SMTP. (Possibly a new verb
   replacing MAIL To)

2) SMTP as a transport could be augmented with some transactional message
   system, that in the end moved (S)MIME formatted emails.
   This is in much the way that HTTP has reused headers... (but HTTP/2)

    > Oh and the same client has a second factor auth capability, a true end
    > to end password manager and supports management of all your PGP web o'
    > trust by means of in person QR code exchange, among other things.

:-)

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-