[v6ops] PI [ULA draft revision #2 Regarding isolated networks]

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 28 May 2014 20:57 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A8D1A0461 for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id glaoteimgdvG for <v6ops@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pb0-x22f.google.com (mail-pb0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 509F21A022D for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id rp16so11721307pbb.6 for <v6ops@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+TXiSk2PMpzeC5Hops5p5JMZcQtc97HwL1dyslLURGM=; b=YtuCJ41Q9Evx7YOJWgQNsLrm7sthpKiv+CX7bj5QFJX9Ybrp6KGPYcBtULnv5wia2t fnrgj/FU5slRg29YGMd2cSpfDu478XfGuMxqgijwrAvcEAbzgw7Bduw3l0ODjukvWWvd 1amrTkKB1hCIQ/o9EZadVnf5YOx4Bd9uQ6Zv6b00KH4P0qgLYFf3JplF50Yz0B9soa4T ZMEkMvEIgMbbzuT+8HQSoaqVU6uC0VUAoklqOmejB30TBTlR4uY0Gr4w/eXpbafM6db8 i2d2b6JzbDcW++CtDersuLVsdVYiFUZodFKG3bt0sQKwxTxrcb3HRAk9iz2vBH0m3x9h JRxA==
X-Received: by 10.66.188.80 with SMTP id fy16mr2676432pac.85.1401310663785; Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.23] (209.199.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.199.209]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ko10sm29880698pbd.52.2014.05.28.13.57.41 for <multiple recipients> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 28 May 2014 13:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <53864DCB.5070202@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 08:57:47 +1200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Tore Anderson <tore@fud.no>
References: <8AE0F17B87264D4CAC7DE0AA6C406F453D8B6B9A@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <m261ks7xww.wl%randy@psg.com> <53840070.90801@gmail.com> <m2y4xn7wep.wl%randy@psg.com> <53840723.8010606@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1O_poMR200sjU=ttRvGaeQRkC1ZfXC0Ok4uQxdq3K=NQ@mail.gmail.com> <m2mwe37tbn.wl%randy@psg.com> <CAKD1Yr2t3-vxuG=iDi4biBNFpJwuzuHgfpB74i_uydWWRV7qZg@mail.gmail.com> <8AE0F17B87264D4CAC7DE0AA6C406F453D8B6E02@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <m2fvjv7q4h.wl%randy@psg.com> <m1WpDcc-0000BMC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <43BB867C-7BCA-45F6-8ADC-A49B34D6C0DC@nominum.com> <5384937A.90409@foobar.org> <m2iooq4oqi.wl%randy@psg.com> <5385762E.5020901@dougbarton.us> <5385AA97.1050207@fud.no>
In-Reply-To: <5385AA97.1050207@fud.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/uspLm-ciwNVpuKmN2ZDnJzSPTbA
Cc: V6 Ops List <v6ops@ietf.org>
Subject: [v6ops] PI [ULA draft revision #2 Regarding isolated networks]
X-BeenThere: v6ops@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: v6ops discussion list <v6ops.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/v6ops/>
List-Post: <mailto:v6ops@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops>, <mailto:v6ops-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 20:57:50 -0000

Tore,

On 28/05/2014 21:21, Tore Anderson wrote:
> * Doug Barton
> 
>> We have a substantial number of medium-sized enterprises which share the 
>> following characteristics:
>>
>> 1. They are large enough to have some internal resources that need 
>> addressing (printers, file servers, maybe a web site or two)
>>
>> 2. They are small enough that PI space and their own ASN are not practical
> 
> You don't need an ASN to use PI space.
> 
>> 3. Some of them want to have multiple service providers, either for 
>> failover or traffic shaping
>>
>> 4. They don't want to have to renumber all of their internal resources 
>> when they change providers
>>
>> What's your solution for them?
> 
> We have a few customers in the same situation. So we obtained a PI
> prefix for them, 

The important words there are "a few". As long as the numbers are
reasonable, this scales. When the numbers cease to be reasonable,
it doesn't scale. The estimate I made some years ago, based on
a little research into statistics in a few countries, was that
there must be about 10 million small or medium enterprises in the
world. We don't know how to route 10M prefixes in BGP-4. So
somewhere between "PI for a few customers" and "PI for every
enterprise", we have to stop.

See the RRG archives.

    Brian


which costs next to nothing in the RIPE region at
> least, and advertise the prefix on their behalf (and in the cases where
> there's a second upstream, the second upstream does the same). Works
> perfectly well, and is much less complex than anything solution
> involving ULA, NAT, multiple prefixes on the hosts, or whatever. The
> customer just gets a bunch of addresses he can use in perpetuity.
> 
> Tore,
> who prefers to KISS
> 
> _______________________________________________
> v6ops mailing list
> v6ops@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
> .
>