Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00
Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Thu, 15 June 2017 17:05 UTC
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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:04:18 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHw9_iLU=5mkVoe2DsTLKxonPXc8wkHAvka-c5djv0i7ZwjC1g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00
To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-4@u-1.phicoh.com>
Cc: ipv6@ietf.org
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On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 5:20 AM, Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-4@u-1.phicoh.com> wrote: >>SLAAC doesn't work unless the network provides enough address space to make >>collisions vanishingly unlikely. > > Indeed. So any RFC that makes smaller pseudo random IIDs possible has to > have at least a section that analyses collision probabilities. So, a couple of years ago I was doing some work with Juan Carlos and Dan Harkins in the IEEE on MAC Randomization (basically randomizing your (WiFi) MAC address to improve privacy / thwart pervasive monitors). There was some discussion on how many bits you would need to randomize to make it unlikely that multiple machines will independently choose the same address. I argued that if you randomize 24 bits, and have a stadium of ~2000 people, you will basically never get a collision. Dan disagreed, and so, in a fit of pique, I wrote an App Engine app to prove him wrong -- and achieved exactly the opposite. This is a birthday paradox problem, and you will get a collision once every ~9 times. I've just updated my little app and put it here: https://ipv6-collision-probability.appspot.com/ It's interesting to play with the numbers and see how likely a collision is, given a certain subnet length and number of hosts. > And set > a lower limit that is generally safe. > > Just leaving it to an operator to figure out that a /112 prefix will > sometimes lead to an IoT device failing due to an address collision is > extremely poor protocol design. Example: With a /112, and 100 hosts, you will have a collision every ~14 times... W > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf
- draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Templin, Fred L
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Templin, Fred L
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 james woodyatt
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Templin, Fred L
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian Haberman
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Templin, Fred L
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ca By
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Smith
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Matthew Petach
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Simon Hobson
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Nick Hilliard
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Nick Hilliard
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 sthaug
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Simon Hobson
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Smith
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Simon Hobson
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ca By
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ca By
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 sthaug
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tom Herbert
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Smith
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tim Chown
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 james woodyatt
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 james woodyatt
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 t.petch
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Tim Chown
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Carlos M. Martinez
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-c… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fred Baker
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 sthaug
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fred Baker
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 weigengyu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ola Thoresen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Roger Jørgensen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 - metho… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ola Thoresen
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 神明達哉
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 otroan
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Peter Hessler
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 sthaug
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 james woodyatt
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Ca By
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Erik Kline
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Warren Kumari
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Warren Kumari
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Job Snijders
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Philip Homburg
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Brian E Carpenter
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 David Farmer
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Smith
- RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00 Mark Andrews
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… Erik Kline
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… Job Snijders
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… David Farmer
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… David Farmer
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RFC4862 and 64-bit IID (Re: draft-bourbaki-6m… Brian E Carpenter