RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00

"Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> Fri, 02 June 2017 20:03 UTC

Return-Path: <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1261243F6 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.211
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQqkU8JOyDP5 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A14C8127241 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v52K3ZMQ056552; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:35 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v52K3Uoq056498 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:31 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:30 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.239.220]) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.239.220]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:03:30 -0700
From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>
To: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
CC: IETF IPv6 Mailing List <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00
Thread-Topic: draft-bourbaki-6man-classless-ipv6-00
Thread-Index: AQHS26olAbwdN6IbFk+uhX2pi2Ws/qISErGAgAAFyYCAAAZ9gIAAE+sA//+ZrfCAAH/0AP//opYAgAB9xoD//492sAAAViDQ
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 20:03:30 +0000
Message-ID: <6bba4c2b58964787860f2c7acf130959@XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <20170602141112.x64nleqclygz7dwd@Vurt.local> <20170602141259.GD30896@gir.theapt.org> <CAKD1Yr0DtQYvCYLQexhXe_nhb5rjeyhnB4bCveqyO5Xbuwdg1A@mail.gmail.com> <20170602145655.msfjw35qhoev4sm2@Vurt.local> <CAKD1Yr3gqFgq3dxFaBEV++q5cgx1AHzFLGRJ50DYJjVE69C7iA@mail.gmail.com> <f2260ee557014429a1fef32de040547b@XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com> <d62ce5e3ea0f486eb4c9d54609a86b24@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <04bdfdfe018145e6aedbaa62ed6cbfb0@XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com> <78fe298cb5484d50a56cf6ed4ddafb54@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-MML: disable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/rQGR8umgknJnoAi4NgVtR2-svMs>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2017 20:03:38 -0000

-----Original Message-----
From: Templin, Fred L 

> My meaning was for the ISP to give the cell phone or home gateway
> a /64, then let the cell phone/ home gateway subnet the /64 to
> the IoT devices within the subnetwork it provides as it sees fit.

Sorry, I have to make an important correction:

Presumably, using some sort of internal address format, also /64, such as privacy addresses? Yes, true, but ...

I'd only make two observations. If the internal address scheme is globally routable, then you can't escape that fact that your ISP is going to have to list potentially many, many routes, reachable through that smartphone's (or home gateway, or internal IoT device gateway) /64. This state of affairs is not desirable.

If the internal address structure is not *globally* routable, the obvious example being ULAs, then we're back to requiring a NAT.

So a hard /64 boundary limits expansion at the edges, unless we use a NAT. Without resorting to a NAT, your ISP will have something to say about what you do, it seems to me. And of course, "ISP" is only to put the problem in terms a home user will understand. The same general issue arises with any network.

Bert