Re: [93attendees] I was wondering...

Hello Pat,

Thanks for eloquently expressing my own thoughts.  I am guessing that 
similar considerations would apply to jugglers, mimes, etc.

Regards,
Charlie P.

On 7/24/2015 9:38 AM, Pat (Patricia) Thaler wrote:
>
> I don’t think the root of the problem was the way that they were 
> dressed as much as it was that their looks and attire seemed to be the 
> reason that they were there. They didn’t participate in explaining the 
> company’s technology.
>
> The purpose of Bits and Bytes, I think, is to provide for vendors to 
> show what they are doing with IETF technology, e.g. practical demos of 
> how the technology we develop is being applied and tests of proposed 
> protocols.
>
> Booth staff usually are there to explain the demos and that is the way 
> it should be. It certainly isn’t unusual for booth staff to be wearing 
> company provided items (e.g. shirts) to help identify them.
>
> I’m uncomfortable with implementing a dress code as a way to deal with 
> this. Some of our attendees wear shorts. I’d hate to see staff running 
> around with rulers to decide that shorts or skirts are too short, etc.
>
> I’d prefer a policy that emphasizes that Bits and Bytes booths are for 
> technical displays and discussions and that booth staff are expected 
> to be technical and able to discuss the displays.
>
> Pat
>
> *From:*93attendees [mailto:93attendees-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of 
> *Andy Bierman
> *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2015 5:13 AM
> *To:* Stephane Bortzmeyer
> *Cc:* Howard, Lee; 93attendees@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [93attendees] I was wondering...
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer 
> <bortzmeyer+ietf@nic.fr <mailto:bortzmeyer+ietf@nic.fr>> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 06:07:44AM -0400,
>  Howard, Lee <lee.howard@twcable.com <mailto:lee.howard@twcable.com>> 
> wrote
>  a message of 57 lines which said:
>
> > However, I would also not want a policy prohibiting engineers from
> > wearing whatever we want. If you want to sponsor Bits-n-Bites and
> > your lead developer likes wearing heels, I have no problem with
> > that. If I want to wear a close-fitting dress to the next
> > Bits-n-Bites, I hope that would be allowed.
>
> In the specific case of the two "booth babes", they both wore exactly
> the same dress. It has a name: this was an uniform. Like you, I
> strongly value the freedom for men and women to dress as they want
> (and I certainly would hate a policy "IETF attendants have to be
> dressed professionnally"), but, here, they were on duty, and not
> exercising any freedom to dress.
>
> Although I agree this incident was inappropriate for an IETF,
>
> I wonder how much is the IETF's own fault.  If the bits&bytes
>
> is advertised to vendors as a trade show, and they are charged money
>
> (more than a trade show), then the IETF should not be shocked
>
> if a vendor thinks their normal trade show procedures are
>
> appropriate for this venue.  The IETF should made sure the
>
> contract with the vendor is clear wrt/ the dress code.
>
> I guess you are assuming their attire was mandated by the employer.
>
> What if it was their choice? Certainly complicates the issue.
>
> Andy
>
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