Re: [93attendees] I was wondering...

[Ole Jacobsen <[e-mail]>]

On Sun, 26 Jul 2015, Barry Leiba wrote:

> One point here needs to be stressed, I think.
> 
> Vasily,
> 
> > It is an attempt to enforce a dress code.
> 
> It is not.
> 
> > If some persons with university degrees want to wear used underwear only,
> > then other persons with university degree should have a right to wear
> > mini-skirts.
> 
> It has nothing to do with whether they have university degrees.  It
> has to do with their roles -- why they were there.
> 
> It doesn't matter what we wear when we're participating in IETF discussions.
> 
> > I could discuss SDN switch architecture even with a nude girl (being
> > bothered for her not to get cold, though ;) )
> 
> Sure... as I said, participating in IETF discussions.
> 
> But...
> 
> Many of us find it offensive and inappropriate when a company puts
> people out there solely to attract attention, and not to actually
> participate in the IETF.  That's the first thing.
> 
> > I am greatly disappointed with all this fuss, which means from my point of
> > view, that there are some unsufficient load with the current brain extensive
> > work for IETF participants, that they raise clothes questions and waste so
> > much time and effort for that.
> 
> The second thing brings us to the reason that the appearance of 
> these women mattered.  We wouldn't like it if they were dressed just 
> like everyone else, but were overtly doing sales and marketing, as 
> that's not what this was supposed to be about.  The people staffing 
> the B&B tables are supposed to be supporting the technical display 
> and explanations.  But having sales/marketing people, in itself, 
> would have only caused mild grumbling.
> 
> The fact that they appeared to be there as *decoration* was what 
> made it really offensive.
> 
> And the fact that they were women in short, tight dresses (and, I 
> note, ones whose design made it clear that they were specifically 
> given these dresses to wear at the event; it wasn't their choice of 
> wardrobe) made it particularly offensive because of the message that 
> sends about the role of women at the IETF -- a message that I 
> certainly don't support, and that I think very many of us don't 
> support (as has been made clear by this discussion).
> 
> Vasily, please don't dismiss the very real offense that many of us 
> have taken from this (and I thank Ondřej for his comments on this 
> matter).  It's OK if you were not offended by it.  Understand that 
> many of us were, and quite deeply so.  It's not that we're wasting 
> brain power by talking about this.  It's that this is a very 
> emotional issue for many.  Please understand that, and take it 
> seriously.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Barry
> 

Barry,

I agree with everything you've said above. I just wanted to add a 
couple of things:

In a lengthy Facebook thread I was asked "how could this have 
happened?" and I my response can best be summarised as follows:

I think the IAOC were as surprised by this "action" as CZNIC was 
surprised by the *reaction*. I don't think that means our hosts are 
out of touch with what Bits and Bites is all about, but I *do* think 
it means that cultural norms an sensitivites differ between different 
countries. (I think Vasily's reaction is an example of just that).

This explanation apparently did not sit well with some people who 
think I am dismissing the concerns expressed and that I implied that 
"it's OK because we're in Europe." I did not say that and I do not 
mean that.

We're an international organization which means that from time we will 
encounter situations that might surprise and even offend some of our 
participants. The best we can do is to learn from these experiences, 
develop appropriate guidelines, and do our best to avoid repeating 
mistakes.

See you all in Yokohama! As you may have heard, I am organizing a 
special lunchtime and evening "musical diversion" on Wednesday, 
November 4. For details see: http://www.yokohama-organdemo.org/

Ole


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher
The Internet Protocol Journal
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