Re: tone policing

Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> Mon, 09 September 2019 17:58 UTC

Return-Path: <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3D0712022D for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Sep 2019 10:58:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R7l4cT1omZDS for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 9 Sep 2019 10:58:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x730.google.com (mail-qk1-x730.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::730]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAD8F120090 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 9 Sep 2019 10:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x730.google.com with SMTP id h126so6265533qke.10 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 09 Sep 2019 10:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=r2fvp8ojfO4cj8s7ulluxC0J69VfI4LPp2NnmGDzM+A=; b=o7PWuYcED2Wgs+gzj5Ulh+DOevuRfLvGQHuWLMo0zy74R760wRgoWxHYzM/CPDbXq9 lkDWC3DLCvp63yPwAp9ZsEbmKaYWKu7v14eNTPQ5QeTanjCEspkCTccoWm/+//Ajla53 BvsWtxnCjFd7BuUyDSCSe2RWu8zGfFIIllkmKrl0DXH/SSb8r87C9cZt7eyyI+pZh4Yd FPKdDu7oHWP0cMg7QUqIDHj4GOZQ2cyCJwIJVxp3RWg6DnpqhMkqKQxVJ5WtTpJ9pkUQ h9XPx3HMDqPMUfex8SafM6VeZ37SzTCMku6ep7WWKMAFrFAkiC0pVSA8wgRf/yt8XR7i mWnQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=r2fvp8ojfO4cj8s7ulluxC0J69VfI4LPp2NnmGDzM+A=; b=DEqv50uN3a+VXNOEIFqXaA6Mzqe3Ux+zDGdNoZEEPk3LfMAWEd5ET9ro11w3A1S+ax qJTECS+qyrHpIjwYbiaXKk3/mmK/tOogRLJmwrA/Y+ysMX8uWns1J0JpL5hzTX+05cxV 2t8LeCu9XjEVC21ocbUc/fIN/EBwb8ScDtqDJ36hwf3bJ95/2wtCUb5gLkjm/ACu5nHX 8dc046URRcGsVzV38K4l/a59IQFIVteuN/MCdsAAc8INEm7UI+MXZsHmibjeuTTmyPAC XVjTaIJ6mXCWVXNJsAyZf+jw3lbrq9BQeNy+mXk6tuYIIaCqGJH6eXdbKoVYC1I55Ish 27Og==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWiAGZhOIF961w7g1YAkLTl8YRhtVdj+YK4gvPN86WODcA/bHRZ bC7gJl2Xi5UBKo2TOHvatSWd/g==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqx7AykPsUoTxKRREp8Zv5p1AAOdDU5pgDLpZ4hEc3W5yweZ0rrlFbYfFwtvjHMY+qWGpoCvpg==
X-Received: by 2002:a37:9ccc:: with SMTP id f195mr3707755qke.110.1568051894581; Mon, 09 Sep 2019 10:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.0.10.46] (c-73-186-137-119.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.186.137.119]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v14sm5464030qkj.23.2019.09.09.10.58.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Sep 2019 10:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Message-Id: <DB63AF8E-BD1D-4A04-B128-08D02C542655@fugue.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_40BF1A96-F609-429F-88DB-EB5D5E9DAE84"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3578.1\))
Subject: Re: tone policing
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 13:58:12 -0400
In-Reply-To: <9205942a-4cdc-7557-8889-dc227ef0aeb9@network-heretics.com>
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
References: <F2D6FBAB-7DED-41AE-9560-4D0D13B15107@ericsson.com> <1BF349D9-8ABB-4844-965A-A43964E18A41@fugue.com> <29c10b3d-8f48-8888-68c9-7390b1e4df5d@network-heretics.com> <ae8353f1-adf9-c615-a721-9fba85b40d5c@foobar.org> <059707fd-afea-e4b4-fa77-967e38206c52@network-heretics.com> <737e066d-4646-7021-3466-6a66f8f0a28e@lounge.org> <259BC9E3-EE7B-4152-8BDD-3900D2D75775@network-heretics.com> <B13131F3-BFB5-4C97-B5A4-E96C34CDAB7C@akamai.com> <4cc1dcb9-ae84-2cef-6439-247a5ccd41af@network-heretics.com> <D4348A6A-A500-488C-AC6F-DEEA7C6B9B2F@fugue.com> <91bab1af-000b-bd83-b94f-d5c62257b6e6@network-heretics.com> <3C18F6C5-1EE0-47E7-9B93-463C30690141@fugue.com> <9205942a-4cdc-7557-8889-dc227ef0aeb9@network-heretics.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3578.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/AoyMVx4fBk9euC6HzV7bwjzMHqI>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2019 17:58:18 -0000

On Sep 9, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote:
> False assumption.   Every minute I spend on this conversation is time I can't bill clients for, and I have a backlog of work.    I wouldn't be investing this effort if I didn't think it were important.

This is what “has free time” means, Keith.   You are objectively consuming more of our bandwidth than any other participant.  This is not ad hominem.  You can see it in Thomas Narten’s weekly summaries.

> You could do your part to reduce the noise by not sending insulting messages, which generally merit face-saving responses.

Isn’t this precisely the sort of statement to which the phrase “tone policing” is referring?

It might be instructive for you to consider just what it was that I said that was insulting.   AFAIK I just pointed out that you are using a perfectly valid tactic for trying to make yourself heard above those with whom you disagree.  And I said that I’d like a way to neutralize that tactic, because to me it not only seems unfair, but is, objectively, burdensome.   Was the content of what I said wrong, or just the tone?   If it was the tone, can you explain what was wrong about the tone?