Re: Sergeant-at-Armss and New proposal/New SOW comment period

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Mon, 02 September 2019 00:03 UTC

Return-Path: <ekr@rtfm.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E03EA1200E9 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:03:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZn87uj8lHw0 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13C6F1200E0 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Sep 2019 17:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id y23so115160lje.9 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:03:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=imqerymbbdA/AG///iiXgIBis6UyEaK30/8Kh8CplEc=; b=WDrKO8QIypyxds+De0TMcYyAFQbnduOpKzeQOLOyIyz423zmS+r/AnU39JndfzciQO sDppsrjmJSXabmL7Te1VBsIt8YrlDTjOQERfioOSnqu4sSPJ0oO90ujIlgUDQh1gM/fW xbtvIhkpd21R5KTZ6wQ+kUzyKm4wKYpDAdjR+wcm4TiWZr3SsO4VtzFuHjmJXwlbSUZ0 1CTLX+tgG5VW8uXq4eU++F3xm2siAAVuoqdXsB2+EeXCIOHwSLq0uc/TfS8tHTj4CDVV 36T9kyfbR2WskV+2145wn4iUZcTJcp5V0GGWs2OpAgs81AecVOwRbuBdwMDyGHCjWwcG O3RA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=imqerymbbdA/AG///iiXgIBis6UyEaK30/8Kh8CplEc=; b=FD5M2JxI2sKpAYmNXOY8QSZeN93qAaz1POxiZOb3m1EKEw6exX1UEz6KEgXu0Fx1TX WnL9gmwTDY9XiBVCzTJYm8DoKOqrHtszvf6fuv5YBfg/z46RgEMgxBzWSljSVCtogBfa a+HnAD7kvgfMtXtoFugJ3Rmx1s7YtdvVqtRiP5hyZUCoHOTvvTLL6kNHXh1hVeL4WstV XcRIuLmvHQpTiUdXAKIIdPUzyklWFPxLTBiakhgdTzZpUyO2lSw53yiXvGA2gLY5RgW4 FmF1W1aWlPlAdSkXhTUwr9OdPlCZqluQXo+0vZCOH4A6+7UMK4ot1ecHk5iW12k4Mrm6 x4dw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVldQqOy+SscHmIz/9E8D3G4pQmklpT7mfNKx6aLfEXAkUo+a2M kDWwz66uAxXfUsIBoOgZGEg1hWwYlhwljFTRtFO7ggv2
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwtHHyUFZBuMawhClkqkHt+eoQbkpq8GB5MzzXg0rmDRJbjyOBJt6/E2hVTZXLb2ffVvKIhcBqasJkUuNl2lTM=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1021:: with SMTP id w1mr427890ljm.145.1567382632204; Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:03:52 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <061D2F46-71C3-4260-B203-73B07EB59418@encrypted.net> <5B276430-96A9-44EA-929B-B9C2325AFCA5@encrypted.net> <863c6fa8-2735-b2c6-5542-d5d100485a6e@outer-planes.net> <10843FAF-66D2-483D-96AB-2F993803AAC6@cisco.com> <6FA9D85E1B425914CA994AFD@PSB> <dcda8d0b-3e75-53de-560c-cf6942e61efd@nostrum.com> <CABcZeBPQu4oZ6pGT8cgAFPTQk4nnQm4S9LzVF46dwBCA+kO7Sw@mail.gmail.com> <m21rwzfv17.wl-randy@psg.com>
In-Reply-To: <m21rwzfv17.wl-randy@psg.com>
From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2019 17:03:15 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBMJVGbKg4P8R26GqJ19wjn5dLRJdZYhVBMWmzizcgBy4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sergeant-at-Armss and New proposal/New SOW comment period
To: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
Cc: IETF Rinse Repeat <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000051d6d059186b5a0"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/vlAcLTxcgOCQB9hxbD3QFGDXD3s>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2019 00:03:56 -0000

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 4:37 PM Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:

> > On the other hand, I, and I suspect others, don't really want to wade
> > through the IETF mailing list in order to follow this discussion.
>
> otoh, some of us do not want to subscribe to yet another mailing list
> for ietf administrivia.  but yes, it is a trade-off to fork or not to
> fork when a sub-subject is hot on some list.
>

Given the amount of heat that this topic seems to produce, I'm not sure I
would call it "administrivia"


do folk not have delete and delete-thread keys?
>

Of course, but I don't generally think that imposing the cost of thread
management on every reader is usually a good tradeoff when we have clearly
distinct subjects. After all, taken to its conclusion, one could argue we
don't need separate mailing lists at all.

-Ekr



> randy
>