Re: [v6ops] reclassify 464XLAT as standard instead of info

[Mark Andrews <[e-mail]>]

In message <[e-mail]>, Fred Baker writes:
>
>
> > On Sep 19, 2017, at 2:15 PM, Alexandre Petrescu
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Fred,
> >
> > Let me comment.
> >
> > Le 19/09/2017  22:41, Fred Baker a crit :
> >> Chair hat off.
> >> If it were ONLY about IPv4, I might agree with you, or suggest
> >> another working group. 464XLAT is about connecting an IPv6-only
> >> (subset of a) network to an IPv4 network,
> >
> > If it is an IPv6-only (subset of a) network then it must run DHCPv6-PD
> to get a prefix.  DHCPv6-PD is Standards Track.  I did not see DHCPv6-PD
> on networks where 464XLAT is present.
>
> Let's agree that it has to have a prefix. T-Mobile, for example, has a
> prefix. Cameron Byrne, from T-Mobile, is a co-author of 464XLAT.
>
> > Second, when you say connecting IPv6-only network to an IPv4-only
> network: GTPU does that already.
>
> Which is great if you're going to a mobile network. If you're going
> anywhere else on the Internet, a mobile-only protocol doesn't do much for
> you. That's why we defined 464XLAT.

We defined 464XLAT because people deployed DNS64/NAT64 despite all
its flaws because the proponents of DNS64/NAT64 made lots of claims
that failed to eventuate in reality.  464XLAT exists to work around
the limitations of DNS64/NAT64.

Claims like we don't need to make changes to the node, yet we have
a CLATs being installed in every node.

Claims like DNS64 is the only way to move traffic to IPv6.  Traffic
moves to IPv6 just fine using address sorting.

Claims like we will naturally know when to turn off the DNS64/NAT64
but we can't do that with any other method.  Hogwash.

Now we have a complicated encapsulation/translation scheme that
requires payload translation at both ends being promoted over simple
IPv4 in IPv6 encapsulation.  464XLAT has zero benefits over simple
IPv4 in IPv6 encapsulation.

Complicated -> more bugs, more testing required, more cost and
reluctance to go to IPv6 at all.

NAT64 and 464XLAT makes it impossible to write a new protocol that
embeds IP addresses based on the transport being used.

All of DNS64, NAT64 and 464XLAT should be made historic despite
their prevalence.  They are all bad engineering.

Yes, this is betamax vs vhs.  Unfortunately we don't have DVD's
coming along to wipe out the bad market decision.  We are going
to be left with the consequences of this bad engineering for
decades to come.

Mark

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Mark Andrews, ISC
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