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Re: [v6ops] reclassify 464XLAT as standard instead of info

Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Fri, 22 September 2017 21:25 UTC

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To: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>
Cc: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
References: <E48DDA04-C058-4992-906E-8C8BC0E102AB@consulintel.es> <1BFA3605-4B16-4331-A7BA-3BDECBCA64EC@gmail.com> <85868796-18C7-48F4-BE69-8D50A1F47EF3@jisc.ac.uk> <472CC0F7-73C2-4A21-8F96-BBC966B01B77@employees.org> <de6b9aac-a3cc-0915-77c7-9fb880c3a16a@gmail.com> <20170921223305.B72A8878E716@rock.dv.isc.org> <CAKD1Yr13ijKCB_71_2vMyGurc3-kSraLJycGxZwf121tjp8u1Q@mail.gmail.com> <20170922070719.74AA687A424E@rock.dv.isc.org> <20170922114847.GV45648@Space.Net> <369B3917-D9F3-41D4-A7BD-DAE134310004@employees.org> <20170922122146.GY45648@Space.Net>
In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Sep 2017 14:21:46 +0200." <20170922122146.GY45648@Space.Net>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 07:25:02 +1000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/v6ops/U6yOgJ8eLsbiS88awHjPS4A7JZ0>
Subject: Re: [v6ops] reclassify 464XLAT as standard instead of info
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In message <20170922122146.GY45648@Space.Net>, Gert Doering writes:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:17:55PM +0200, Ole Troan wrote:
> > > On 22 Sep 2017, at 13:48, Gert Doering <gert@space.net> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 05:07:19PM +1000, Mark Andrews wrote:
> > >> IPv6 applications need to add code to WORKAROUND breakages caused
> > >> by NAT64 the way they need add WORKAROUNDS for the NAT breakages
> > >> even if they are not using NAT64 or NAT respectively.  The cancer
> > >> that is NAT64 needs to be eradicated.
> > >=20
> > > It will nicely go away if all endpoints are reachable over v6.
> >=20
> > I think that?fs the concern. That it will not.=20
> > IPv6 applications will have code to accommodate for NAT64 forever.=20
> 
> Yeah, but you can't have the cake and eat it.  Either we go v6-only
> everywhere, or we keep running IPv4 everywhere until everybody else
> is done, or we introduce v4/v6 NATs, or we add a CLAT to every single
> operating system out there.
 
Or we use any of the *other* IPv4 as a service technologies that
are standards track.  Some of which are actually being used in
broadband deployments today to deliver IPv4 as a service with IPv6
only access networks.

	DS-Lite (RFC 6333 - Category: Standards Track)
	MAP-E   (RFC 7597 - Category: Standards Track)

CLAT is not needed.  DNS64 is not needed.  NAT64 is not needed.

> What's it gonna be, boys?
> 
> (Oh, "or we give up, roll back existing v6 deployments, and live happy
> with v4 nat forever".  FAR less work, and for Joe Average User, it won't
> make a difference.  Facebook and Youtube will continue to work, and
> their IoT devices will keep drilling holes into firewalls to ensure that
> they can be exploited no matter what)

Stop exaggerating.  Google went and added CLAT to the Android.  They
can just as easily add DS-Lite to Android and we would have billions
of machines that support DS-Lite.  Just because NAT64 and 464XLAT are
sexy doesn't mean that it is good technology.

Mark

> Gert Doering
>         -- NetMaster
> --=20
> have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?
> 
> SpaceNet AG                        Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard
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-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka@isc.org

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