Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

[John C Klensin <[e-mail]>]

--On Saturday, June 4, 2022 11:08 +1200 Brian E Carpenter
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> On 04-Jun-22 04:27, tom petch wrote:
> ...
>> 
>> A new non-WG list was announced yesterday including the text
>> 'For additional information, contact the list administrators'
>> with no indication who they might be or anywhere where they
>> might be identified.
>> 
>> Yes, administrators are elusive.
> 
> The Welcome message after you subscribe is no more helpful
> (and even lies: "Normally, Mailman will remind you of your
> ietf.org mailing list passwords once every month").
> 
> If it isn't possible to patch those messages because they are
> baked into Mailman, that's another argument why the pages
> under our control such as
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg should contain the
> appropriate contact details.

And, as I pointed out yesterday when I commented on the
announcement (the reason I added the ART ADs to this
distribution) [1], there is actually less,  information at
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfbl : it not only does
not identify the secret administrators, but does not even
provide information as to which ADs to bug if one does not want
to pick a random one of those as Lars suggested earlier.  As a
bonus, the explanation of what the list is about is
incomprehensible, at least to non-specialists.

And this isn't even about abuse or harassment, just about trying
to find out what a list is about or asking someone for
information on that subject.

best,
   john


[1]
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/mvx73cHdZ1vzovqSWms7QocT2FY/