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Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sat, 11 June 2022 23:26 UTC

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Message-ID: <dea20323-3182-9967-c78a-28eeb12f1f3f@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 19:25:55 -0400
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Subject: Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists
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To: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <16C5EC99A155D55344E1F195@PSB> <55B5F6C1-B554-4675-BCD5-048043162D22@tzi.org> <65A1073F-8519-4BDB-B85C-72087B527498@eggert.org> <0325E09B-3B8D-47B5-83B8-ACA5A028B464@episteme.net> <629A3680.9010002@btconnect.com> <b97e7721-ae59-ab49-7f27-b427e2ef7bc6@gmail.com> <3A57F3D797B85E2F0A862687@PSB> <629B4ACB.8010308@btconnect.com> <A62BB706DDC6044CA7676E0B@PSB> <629DB8E5.7070206@btconnect.com> <a0556611-dc43-9280-1ab1-1ae747b21eff@network-heretics.com> <cba4c1b9-772f-8baa-d0fc-c94701747ec0@gmail.com> <C6E2D9FD91539FC17B7AD498@PSB> <8CD09EF0-A825-4539-9B3F-38B881BA4F2D@ietf.org> <6410e897-4a1a-35d7-9564-fe1b9445b2c5@network-heretics.com> <82ACFD06-E4C4-4DB5-A3DE-6543E41F8CB3@ietf.org> <2b247525-b651-1292-940e-fc98c2df84d0@network-heretics.com> <28b0e3d6-8f17-11f6-6d7a-f701adee0833@network-heretics.com> <5fd805da-1247-4b5c-dd0a-b7d577776ba4@joelhalpern.com> <8d6d5e69-560b-f351-a4e1-2b22995d952a@network-heretics.com> <a6a336a2-5501-22e0-3842-9b6c1c4f8a84@joelhalpern.com>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
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On 6/11/22 19:22, Joel Halpern wrote:

> Yes, we use "rude" in email.  Yes, the documents use "professional
>  or "unprofessional" to which you have objected.  So proposed better 
> wording.  Just saying "do not limit things that way" does not help us 
> get to a state that works better for the community.

I am not sure that the problem can be fixed by a simple wording 
change.   And there's been a strong negative reaction to the idea of 
fixing that problem at all.  I've formed a strong impression that some 
powerful people want to be able to enforce arbitrary restrictions.

Keith

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