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Re: Bad/Good ideas and damage control by experienced participants

Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> Mon, 20 June 2022 21:33 UTC

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Subject: Re: Bad/Good ideas and damage control by experienced participants
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <20220614144751.97882437791D@ary.local> <e1f4d62f-eb87-8109-a40f-bbde30ac01ba@network-heretics.com> <ybl4k0izsf9.fsf@wx.hardakers.net> <40ccd02c-717d-1b66-716d-aa7e4c5db995@network-heretics.com> <BY5PR11MB41965FE98F7562BFD8E43195B5B09@BY5PR11MB4196.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <1b3e1707-ad80-b52d-9f3e-abe1f87e5da7@network-heretics.com>
From: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
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Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 22:33:09 +0100
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Keith Moore wrote on 20/06/2022 19:36:
> We REALLY need to get past the notion that Bad People Discouraging 
> Newcomers are the problem with IETF.   I'm 100% serious.   Our problems 
> are MUCH deeper than that, and that kind of argument is inherently 
> divisive because it encourages efforts to get rid of and/or marginalize 
> the supposed Bad People.   That kind of thinking is toxic, and utterly 
> incompatible with building consensus.

it's not helpful to characterise this in terms of "bad people".  The 
underlying issues relate to approach and attitude, rather than 
personalisation.

The reality is that newcomers are put off participating at the IETF, and 
there's even an ID which touches on the topic: 
draft-opsawg-operators-ietf.  There may other problems with the IETF, 
and some of those problems may even be worse, but that doesn't mean that 
off-putting communication approaches from IETF participants shouldn't be 
addressed.

Nick

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