Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

[tom petch <[e-mail]>]

On 04/06/2022 01:38, John C Klensin wrote:
>
> --On Saturday, June 4, 2022 11:08 +1200 Brian E Carpenter
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> On 04-Jun-22 04:27, tom petch wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> A new non-WG list was announced yesterday including the text
>>> 'For additional information, contact the list administrators'
>>> with no indication who they might be or anywhere where they
>>> might be identified.
>>>
>>> Yes, administrators are elusive.
>>
>> The Welcome message after you subscribe is no more helpful
>> (and even lies: "Normally, Mailman will remind you of your
>> ietf.org mailing list passwords once every month").
>>
>> If it isn't possible to patch those messages because they are
>> baked into Mailman, that's another argument why the pages
>> under our control such as
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/list/nonwg should contain the
>> appropriate contact details.
>
> And, as I pointed out yesterday when I commented on the
> announcement (the reason I added the ART ADs to this
> distribution) [1], there is actually less,  information at
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfbl : it not only does
> not identify the secret administrators, but does not even
> provide information as to which ADs to bug if one does not want
> to pick a random one of those as Lars suggested earlier.  As a
> bonus, the explanation of what the list is about is
> incomprehensible, at least to non-specialists.
>
> And this isn't even about abuse or harassment, just about trying
> to find out what a list is about or asking someone for
> information on that subject.

Wandering off into the weeds, that listinfo page does have a msilto: url 
for the list owner which could be seen as the list administrator and it 
also has a URL for the archive in which the first entry tells me that 
the list bolongs to ART.

By which time the harassed person has probably taken to Facebook (or 
LinkedIn) to rant at the unfriendliness of the organisation:-(

Tom Petch

> best,
>     john
>
>
> [1]
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/mvx73cHdZ1vzovqSWms7QocT2FY/
>
>
> .
>