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Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org> Thu, 09 June 2022 11:40 UTC

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Subject: Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists
From: Jay Daley <exec-director@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2022 12:40:41 +0100
Cc: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, ietf@ietf.org
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References: <16C5EC99A155D55344E1F195@PSB> <5a53fa11-8138-2261-0e30-ae603b064cc8@network-heretics.com> <452764b0-a758-874a-2ce5-122f9d0de763@gmail.com> <4520B31984B329BF6936113D@PSB> <6298831D.8030605@btconnect.com> <941D4EB9-8EDF-4612-AD55-251C381C09FB@episteme.net> <e1d5ba16-8c12-cd30-ea4c-762b9225cee4@gmail.com> <10863445C94B1C12A5973429@PSB> <A92F81D8-057D-4AA0-B94E-427D6F8AB53A@eggert.org> <55B5F6C1-B554-4675-BCD5-048043162D22@tzi.org> <65A1073F-8519-4BDB-B85C-72087B527498@eggert.org> <0325E09B-3B8D-47B5-83B8-ACA5A028B464@episteme.net> <629A3680.9010002@btconnect.com> <b97e7721-ae59-ab49-7f27-b427e2ef7bc6@gmail.com> <3A57F3D797B85E2F0A862687@PSB> <629B4ACB.8010308@btconnect.com> <A62BB706DDC6044CA7676E0B@PSB> <629DB8E5.7070206@btconnect.com> <a0556611-dc43-9280-1ab1-1ae747b21eff@network-heretics.com> <cba4c1b9-772f-8baa-d0fc-c94701747ec0@gmail.com> <C6E2D9FD91539FC17B7AD498@PSB>
To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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> On 7 Jun 2022, at 02:51, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the problems arise when almost any attempt to be
> critical is interpreted as being at least disrespectful even if
> not actually rude.

That’s certainly a problem to watch out for along with other blatant abuses of power.

In my experience though, that is rare and what is far more common is a situation that begins with someone being both critical and rude at the same time, and then descends into a downward spiral of people talking across each other - one group for whom the rudeness is the main issue and and one group for whom the criticism is the main issue.  I often see those in the latter group interpreting any admonishment for the rudeness as targeting for being critical and therefore an abuse of power.

Jay

> 
>   john
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
exec-director@ietf.org

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