Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

[John C Klensin <[e-mail]>]

--On Friday, June 3, 2022 14:30 +0300 Lars Eggert
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> On 2022-6-3, at 13:38, Carsten Bormann <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> On 2022-06-03, at 09:19, Lars Eggert <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> They can always contact any AD, the IESG as a whole, or the
>>> IETF Chair.
>> 
>> (One problem with such a broad recommendation is that a
>> newcomer will have no way to know who in the IETF
>> organization colludes with whom.  We may think it is a job
>> requirement for an AD to be able to act like an ombudsman,
>> but how does the newcomer know that.)
> 
> which is why there is an ombudsteam?

Right, except...

* That hypothetical newcomer has even less chance of knowing
they should contact the ombudsteam and how to do that then they
do of thinking to contact an AD seeking one out.

* The ombudsteam has, in the past, declined to address behavior
on mailing lists that "merely" involves abusive, demeaning, or
insulting language.  So, if we want them to take on these sorts
of issues, I think we need to broaden the definition of their
role and make certain they are in agreement with the new
definition.

best,
   john