IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 02 June 2022 23:25 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 439B6C14CF1E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jun 2022 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.984
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.984 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.876, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nFwOYeeofjA8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Jun 2022 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pj1-x102f.google.com (mail-pj1-x102f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102f]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09D61C14F720 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Jun 2022 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pj1-x102f.google.com with SMTP id v5-20020a17090a7c0500b001df84fa82f8so5992200pjf.5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 02 Jun 2022 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=89jUN3dGQMAznbK6qt2yjqC+hIA1gEqtdT7J+SeSorE=; b=KYJM1iccx6SiLWPgt4U3JgmmqrBhbSajPMDw7UUmM+0WP3hfkdYAVf+06WEmZ1VOMU a5WqUXwHftd4byvGUGZdpI6iwL1jV6vIMGWJHb3mO0C/N5fZTLKkPotRZ+7K0T2tXISL lcYvXfMyHhUyz34V53CoTCOtKsNQyoHX8mKsUgyzY67F9J0GYwYL959M2+Q7ugIhQvcR 3VyDQpr3zVKjnpYOubIXdxB3uZE2yx5XHBG0FaGZdFrHaMhzmEozRKZtUPwTzXLe6eX5 dy6sIOGOA+piCWUqfeQWVfoS+GZzO3JSmxqvl/6FiBGgoopdKBCefXhE55eO0ldZdWsM QPRw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=89jUN3dGQMAznbK6qt2yjqC+hIA1gEqtdT7J+SeSorE=; b=Ol2ujuED4l6Mit737ev65sFqEb5UAtnXRXLYNHy1bTph7M5PROoGEsrOdsvrjUCy0u q3awIAdhxjBUzeL+QM7Ggc2w8I+qfDFXrXKnwlnT987qUXDI46/B1AJE7CoFpXWTVtJA EL0bT2X/NVjdS/b4h2/dMuaUjdl2ylOssQhm0aXjVwNMtP8hYaz1pMQUw3cKwlf96xTg 52uSzE2cO9fB7mQK4kyXnI2LXGN7jFWFCQHv8dKfy/7i5odSpmoIDGOGTdhVYpPGR7ZM Zp8TNBhuPHGiYO/BIjb/rde/OHlAXhYFYzLqvqvqvYfrsjWeON9QAAV8xlbp5ht07qgf EuXw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532tjsbzYosfrLcZvmqLodQCnZH8DJMjToeyVolSxyeIPFzsgekH d2LJf0menqzl56tOA9nkf5WT5MKScbqWkg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2RzR+wZUJpdZtUYFmTBWZEAipgmM07hpf6pX7yoesbWA0vzMo4i2XY19zpxiNWnin+eRm6g==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b413:b0:15e:e6a8:b3e with SMTP id x19-20020a170902b41300b0015ee6a80b3emr7240041plr.24.1654212327864; Thu, 02 Jun 2022 16:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bo11-20020a056a000e8b00b00517c84fd24asm1549204pfb.172.2022.06.02.16.25.25 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Jun 2022 16:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists
To: Pete Resnick <resnick@episteme.net>, tom petch <daedulus@btconnect.com>
Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <16C5EC99A155D55344E1F195@PSB> <5a53fa11-8138-2261-0e30-ae603b064cc8@network-heretics.com> <452764b0-a758-874a-2ce5-122f9d0de763@gmail.com> <4520B31984B329BF6936113D@PSB> <6298831D.8030605@btconnect.com> <941D4EB9-8EDF-4612-AD55-251C381C09FB@episteme.net>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1d5ba16-8c12-cd30-ea4c-762b9225cee4@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2022 11:25:24 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <941D4EB9-8EDF-4612-AD55-251C381C09FB@episteme.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/Je3opvO0cySm1O3z5JT3um0x0oM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2022 23:25:31 -0000

On 03-Jun-22 10:01, Pete Resnick wrote:
> On 2 Jun 2022, at 4:30, tom petch wrote:
> 
>> How about
>>
>> <list-name>-owner
>>
>> making it clear in future to those who take on that responsibility
>> that that is part of their responsibility?
> 
> Yes, but the email address and/or name of the human(s) on the other end
> of <list-name>-owner needs to be easily and publicly available.

Which is *not* a feature of mailman; I suspect that hiding the admin's
identity is probably intentional. However, I think that our table
of non-WG lists should identify the admins and responsible AD (either by
name or as <area>-ads@ietf.org).

Another twist is that if the list in question is subsidiary to a WG, such
as a design team list, then it seems logical that the WG chairs should be
on the hook too.

     Brian

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email