Re: Harassment, abuse, accountability. and IETF mailing lists

[Keith Moore <[e-mail]>]

On 6/9/22 07:40, Jay Daley wrote:
>> I think the problems arise when almost any attempt to be
>> critical is interpreted as being at least disrespectful even if
>> not actually rude.
> That’s certainly a problem to watch out for along with other blatant abuses of power.
>
> In my experience though, that is rare and what is far more common is a situation that begins with someone being both critical and rude at the same time, and then descends into a downward spiral of people talking across each other - one group for whom the rudeness is the main issue and and one group for whom the criticism is the main issue.  I often see those in the latter group interpreting any admonishment for the rudeness as targeting for being critical and therefore an abuse of power.

Some people take any kind of criticism of what they think is important, 
as rudeness.

And some people will use any tactic to shoot down a person or an idea 
that they don't like, including accusing the person advocating that idea 
of rudeness.

It's not that people can never be rude (they can), or that rudeness is a 
good thing (it's not).   But much of what people call rudeness is 
subjective and arbitrary.   If people can be shut down for rudeness, 
that inherently stifles a robust dialog aimed at discovering technical 
truth.   And that's why vague rules against rudeness are toxic to a 
consensus-making organization.

Keith