Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

Hi,

I think that this list is very useful but the point that was made before is
that we need the time to do the work. 

We can have a shorter meeting if we find a way to have all the sessions and
enough time for some ad-hoc meetings during the IETF meeting to progress the
work. As was pointed out some of the mentioned standard groups work longer
hours and spend evening time on editing sessions (This is my experience from
ITU-T SG-16 and MPEG).

Personally, I have to stay till Saturday anyhow in most  cases. Having
meeting on the US west coast makes it impossible for me to fly on Friday
(have to take an early morning flight to the east coast) and I get home
usually by Sunday afternoon due to time difference.  But if there is no
efficient way to cover the same content in shorter time I accept it.

Roni Even

From: 73attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:73attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:25 PM
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker
Cc: 73attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

We just to complete the story:

3GPP meetings regularly start at 9:00 on Monday morning and finish at 3:00,
4:00 or even 6:00 on Friday.

ETSI TISPAN meetings work similar schedules.

Haven't been to ITU-T for a long while, but when I used to attend SG11, they
went on for 3 weeks at a time, and finished when the traslators went home on
Friday, and sometimes continued after, so sometimes 5:00 or 6:00. Only
relaxation on that one was that these were generally SG or WP plenaries, and
therefore you could let some of the technical people go.

But the main point I am really making is that the shorter you make the main
meeting, the greater the need for face to face ad hocs inbetween, so you may
save 1 nights expenses in the main meeting by gaining an extra night and a
travel bill, and another travel round trip elsewhere in the year. Plus all
the problems of trying to schedule it in my already crowded calendar.

regards

Keith

  _____  

From: Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:hallam@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:39 PM
To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
Cc: John C Klensin; 73attendees@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

IETF is the only standards body I work in that regularly schedules more than
one Monday and Friday meeting a year.

OASIS does not meet in plenary session. W3C only meets in plenary session
once a year. 

OASIS and W3C WG chairs know that they cannot schedule F2F meetings for
Mondays or Fridays, just does not happen. And I can't think of an
international standards body that does. IEEE, ANSI, ETSI are all parochial,
at least in theory. Two have a geographic descriptor in the title and the
other decided to insert itself into US politics by lobbying Congress on
immigration policy.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:54 AM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
<drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

And the chief problem with a light Friday, is that we have found it
impossible to schedule WG ad hocs anytime from lunchtime on Thursday because
people have decided they are going to start going home at that time.

If you cancel Friday, then you might as well start about thinking about
cancelling Thursday, etc.

Oh by the way, can we now schedule 3 ad hocs a year so we can actually get
the work done.

And IETF is the only standards body I know of that seems to think the people
need weekends off for those very special US participants. Many home
locations of anyone outside NAR cannot make the connections to attend the
Friday sessions and get home even on Saturday morning. And I finally got
home from IETF last Thursday morning.

regards

Keith

  _____  

From: 73attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:73attendees-bounces@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Phillip Hallam-Baker
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:51 AM
To: John C Klensin
Cc: 73attendees@ietf.org 

Subject: Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

Either meet on Friday or start mid-day Monday.

One weekend is acceptable home-wise. two weekends are not.

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM, John C Klensin <john+ietf@jck.com
<mailto:john%2Bietf@jck.com> > wrote:

--On Wednesday, 03 December, 2008 14:42 -0600 Dean Willis

<dean.willis@softarmor.com> wrote:

>> I have to second Mary's disagreement on canceling Fridays.
>> If there   are sessions on Friday for me I don't want to
>> travel that day   anyway.  What's the hurry?
>>
>
> Another $200 in travel costs (hotel and meals), opportunity of
> >  $1,000 in billable time, plus an increased probability of
> divorce costs for some attendees?

Yep.  With small variations, that about covers it.

Of course, if we also met Saturday and part of Sunday, that
would guarantee Saturday night stays, which might help offset
some of the travel costs (although not the hotel ones).    On
the other hand, for those attendees for which it is relevant, it
would probably further increase the divorce costs (or at least
the divorce risk).

       john

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