Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

Most Hotels have smaller meeting rooms as well as the main venue. If there
was an easy way to book a room for a small pre-meeting on the Sunday this
might become popular. Then folk can hold a pre-meeting for detailed
discussion and spec editing in advance of the main meeting. The main meeting
then processes the issues list where a need for more discussion is
identified.

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Hi,
>
> I think that this list is very useful but the point that was made before is
> that we need the time to do the work.
>
>
>
> We can have a shorter meeting if we find a way to have all the sessions and
> enough time for some ad-hoc meetings during the IETF meeting to progress the
> work. As was pointed out some of the mentioned standard groups work longer
> hours and spend evening time on editing sessions (This is my experience from
> ITU-T SG-16 and MPEG).
>
> Personally, I have to stay till Saturday anyhow in most  cases. Having
> meeting on the US west coast makes it impossible for me to fly on Friday
> (have to take an early morning flight to the east coast) and I get home
> usually by Sunday afternoon due to time difference.  But if there is no
> efficient way to cover the same content in shorter time I accept it.
>
> Roni Even
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* 73attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:73attendees-bounces@ietf.org]
> *On Behalf Of *DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:25 PM
> *To:* Phillip Hallam-Baker
>
> *Cc:* 73attendees@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country
>
>
>
> We just to complete the story:
>
>
>
> 3GPP meetings regularly start at 9:00 on Monday morning and finish at 3:00,
> 4:00 or even 6:00 on Friday.
>
>
>
> ETSI TISPAN meetings work similar schedules.
>
>
>
> Haven't been to ITU-T for a long while, but when I used to attend SG11,
> they went on for 3 weeks at a time, and finished when the traslators went
> home on Friday, and sometimes continued after, so sometimes 5:00 or 6:00.
> Only relaxation on that one was that these were generally SG or WP
> plenaries, and therefore you could let some of the technical people go.
>
>
>
> But the main point I am really making is that the shorter you make the main
> meeting, the greater the need for face to face ad hocs inbetween, so you may
> save 1 nights expenses in the main meeting by gaining an extra night and a
> travel bill, and another travel round trip elsewhere in the year. Plus all
> the problems of trying to schedule it in my already crowded calendar.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Phillip Hallam-Baker [mailto:hallam@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:39 PM
> *To:* DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
> *Cc:* John C Klensin; 73attendees@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country
>
> IETF is the only standards body I work in that regularly schedules more
> than one Monday and Friday meeting a year.
>
> OASIS does not meet in plenary session. W3C only meets in plenary session
> once a year.
>
> OASIS and W3C WG chairs know that they cannot schedule F2F meetings for
> Mondays or Fridays, just does not happen. And I can't think of an
> international standards body that does. IEEE, ANSI, ETSI are all parochial,
> at least in theory. Two have a geographic descriptor in the title and the
> other decided to insert itself into US politics by lobbying Congress on
> immigration policy.
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:54 AM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <
> drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:
>
> And the chief problem with a light Friday, is that we have found it
> impossible to schedule WG ad hocs anytime from lunchtime on Thursday because
> people have decided they are going to start going home at that time.
>
>
>
> If you cancel Friday, then you might as well start about thinking about
> cancelling Thursday, etc.
>
>
>
> Oh by the way, can we now schedule 3 ad hocs a year so we can actually get
> the work done.
>
>
>
> And IETF is the only standards body I know of that seems to think the
> people need weekends off for those very special US participants. Many home
> locations of anyone outside NAR cannot make the connections to attend the
> Friday sessions and get home even on Saturday morning. And I finally got
> home from IETF last Thursday morning.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
> Keith
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* 73attendees-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:73attendees-bounces@ietf.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Phillip Hallam-Baker
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:51 AM
> *To:* John C Klensin
> *Cc:* 73attendees@ietf.org
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country
>
>
>
> Either meet on Friday or start mid-day Monday.
>
> One weekend is acceptable home-wise. two weekends are not.
>
> On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM, John C Klensin <john+ietf@jck.com<john%2Bietf@jck.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> --On Wednesday, 03 December, 2008 14:42 -0600 Dean Willis
>
> <dean.willis@softarmor.com> wrote:
>
> >> I have to second Mary's disagreement on canceling Fridays.
> >> If there   are sessions on Friday for me I don't want to
> >> travel that day   anyway.  What's the hurry?
> >>
> >
> > Another $200 in travel costs (hotel and meals), opportunity of
> > >  $1,000 in billable time, plus an increased probability of
> > divorce costs for some attendees?
>
> Yep.  With small variations, that about covers it.
>
> Of course, if we also met Saturday and part of Sunday, that
> would guarantee Saturday night stays, which might help offset
> some of the travel costs (although not the hotel ones).    On
> the other hand, for those attendees for which it is relevant, it
> would probably further increase the divorce costs (or at least
> the divorce risk).
>
>        john
>
>
>
>
>
>
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