Re: [73attendees] Attendance by country

It is still possible from the East Coast to travel from the US to Europe in
the same day but it almost always requires a red-eye. West Coast was
possible at some times before 9/11.

If one is going to have to take a red eye then surely taking off Thursday
night, arriving Friday morning (ish) and sleeping?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 2:02 PM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <
drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

>  The statistics are fast approaching the point where an equal number of
> the people who write drafts (i.e. the people who do the work) come from
> Europe as opposed to North America.
>
> Show me any flight that leaves San Francisco at any time and gets to
> anywhere in Europe on the same calendar day. There isn't one. Do the sums
> and you will work out why.
>
> Point: People are continuing to argue that the meetings are in North
> America and the participants come from North America and adopting timing
> preferences to suite. If you are North American participant, start thinking
> about your preferred meeting schedule if all the meetings were in Europe.
> Living in Europe, I'd be quite happy with the current schedule and be able
> to get to all the meetings with minimum impingement on weekends.
>
> I lose the best part of two weekends for every North American based IETF
> meeting. I have no sympathy (and very little tolerance) for people
> complaining about losing half a day.
>
> regards
>
> Keith
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* hallam@gmail.com [mailto:hallam@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:27 PM
> *To:* Mary Barnes; Phillip Hallam-Baker; DRAGE, Keith (Keith);
> 73attendees@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: RE: [73attendees] Attendance by country
>
> Most of the single parent folk I know actually have an easier time of it
> since they are sharing custody of the children with another party who is
> anxious for as much contact with them as possible. Dumping the kids on the
> ex for a week is usually an available option.
>
> Also the age of the children is rather significant as is the effect that
> dad being away has on their behavior.
>
> I don't think that the IETF should be entirely indifferent to the personal
> lives of participants as you appear to suggest. Most IETF participants can
> find alternative jobs even in a down economy - although the crisis of the
> past few months is something of an exception. But I really don't want to be
> placing volunteers with a choice between participation and their job
> unnecessarily. And I suspect that those of us who are full time corporate
> representatives are a minority in any case. And even if that were not the
> case, we are not recognized as such in IETF process.
>
> If we are going to argue for making meeting times on the assumption that
> this is a job then we should carry that assumption over to other areas. If
> we are going to continue to be a volunteer organization then we should
> encourage widespread participation by chosing meeting times than minimize
> impact on personal life as much as possible. It is not going to be possible
> to satisfy everyone everytime. But I don't see why the fact that some people
> are going to chose to travel on the weekend should oblige everyone else to.
> Or the fact that you have to get up for a 6am flight in SFO to make it back
> to Europe the same day argues for holding meetings on the Friday.
>
> On Dec 4, 2008 11:29am, Mary Barnes <mary.barnes@nortel.com> wrote:
> >
> > Again,
> >
> > a YMMV issue.  Having spent 14 years in a both parent's working household
>
> > (and now being in a single parent household), this is still not such a
> > significant issue. In my experience, it's actually a bigger issue in a
> household
> > where the mother is a SAHM because they rarely get a break.  And, yes, I
> > know this is a controversial point. When I was at Telecom '99, which
> required
> > more than two full weekends away, the guys were fussing as
> > the SAHM wives back home were complaining about all the
> > family issues without the Dad home for support and they were really
> > taken aback when I told them that the job that the moms were doing was
> far more
> > stressful than anything we were dealing with on a daily basis,
> particularly
> > when you consider most of us have opportunities of enjoying at least one
> nice
> > meal and we usually have someone that makes our beds daily, etc.  There
> is
> > research that shows that the stress levels of mothers (determined by both
>
> > questionnaires and blood tests of hormones impacted by stress) is
> equivalent to
> > that of a soldier on the front lines of a war.
>
>

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